Advice for First Game with New Players

General GTG General Discussion
1

Hey everyone,

  so I watched all the video reviews, read the rulebook, and put in an order for my very own copy of the enhanced edition of SotM (with Ambuscade and Unity along for the ride).  I've never played it but it just seemed too cool and too fun to pass by.  While I'm happily awaiting the new editions to ship, I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on making the first game as fun and exciting as possible for me and my friends.  In other words, what advice do you have for making sure SotM makes a good first impression with a group of casual gamers?  Specifically, is there a good villian/environment combo to start with?  And what hero works well for a first play through (to get people acclimated to the game without overwhelming them and hopefully having some synergy and a good chance at victory)?

 

From what I've been able to figure about the game, I was thinking of the following:

Villain: Baron Blade

Environment: Megalopolis

Heroes: Ra, Legacy, Wraith, Visionary/Tempest

 

I figured Ra would be a great choice for my friend who isn't too familiar with card/synergy games (not overly complicated and he'd have a blast being the one burning everything up), Legacy and Wraith would be fun thematically for those in the group with some superhero roots, and Visionary or Tempest just seems like a great choices for keeping everyone alive and kicking - I would hate for someone to get annoyed with the game from the start because they got incapacitated early in the game and just watched the rest of us play.  Of course, people will be more excited to play with the character they think is cool, but it wouldn't hurt if I had some idea of the hero choices and team arrangements that wouldn't work so well.

 

Anyways, what do you think?

 

2

 Looks pretty good,  BB is definitely a nice introductory villain.   Personally I would go for Insula Primalis instead of Megalopolis.   It's a judgement call, but Megalopolis has several cards that stop the standard flow of the game:  IE:  heroes can't draw cards, heroes cant use powers....    Insula Primalis typically just deals damage.   And seriously,  who doesn't like dinosaurs?  Nobody.

 

Ra is probably the most straightforward hero and a shoe-in for  a new player who wants to have fun and deal damage, a great choice.

 

Legacy probably helps the team more than any other hero;  but I would make sure that the player who selects Legacy knows this.   Despite his phisique and the fact that he is often compared to Superman or Captain America, he is a "helper-hero"  and does not deal a lot of damage himself.   I have had new players find themselves dissapointed when selecting Legacy because they thought they would be busting heads and they discover that Ra is much better at the whole damage thing.   Also for good or for ill, the player being Legacy will need to remember that BB is Legacy's Nemisis,  so +1 damage for each other.

 

Wraith is another good pick, plenty of damage and utility, a strong all around hero.    Only hitch is that with Impromptu Invention they might not know what to look for, might be overwhelming the very first play.

 

Visionary is one of my favorite heroes, but I don't think she's good for a first-timer.   Visionary is more nuanced than most of the other base game heroes, she doesn't do much direct damage, she is all about control... and the best way to get the most bang for your buck with a control hero is to know the game and the cards well.

 

Temepst is a good pick for a first-time player,  he is very similar to Ra in some respects, able to deal a lot of damage, which is fun for new players.  He also has a fair amount of tools at his disposal which makes him pretty good in just about any situation. 

 

If you're reconsidering any heroes, Haka is a very straightforward choice,  powerful, and with a lot of HP.     Fanatic is another good choice who is reasonably straightforward and works well together with both Legacy and Ra.

3

Disagree on Fanatic. Her tendency to damage herself to power her abilities confuses new players, and some experienced ones, at first.

 

Omnitron is also a good starting villain.

 

Insular Primalis makes a better environment, IMO

 

The 'official' set of easy to play characters is: Haka, Legacy, Ra, Tempest and Wraith. All of these are straighforward to play and don't need a complicated card strategy. Absolute Zero, Argent Adept and NightMist are considered complicated to play owing to the need for combos to make them effetive.

4

 Only Sacrosacnt Martyr actually hurts her...     Don't use it if you don't want to.      Unless you count like, Embolden, Divine Sacrifice, and Divine Focus,  but really you can avoid using those too if you want.     Legacy has abilities that hurt him too (Heroic Interception, Take Down).    And Fanatic is so great with Legacy on the team..

5

I always let new players play Wraith, she's easy to understand and she does a little bit of everything plus she's always doing something, she will always at least use her innate power. The first time I played I used Ra and he didn't pop the way Ra should just because of a bad draw and I wound up not doing a damn thing before the boss was dead other than pinging him with my innate power, then at the suggestion of our good friend Christopher (who happened to be in the same hotel lobby we were playing) I used Wraith and fell in love with the game, if it wasn't for wraith I'm not sure I would have bought it. I would also advise against Legacy for first timers, he's easy to use but he can be so boring when every other hero is beating up the boss and he's just buffing players. He's a great character and I love playing him now but that first game you want a damage fest with lots of cards being played.

6

One thing we learned in doing demos at cons is that Insala Primalus is a far better environment than Megolopolis for new players - awp832 nailed it:

  • Far fewer cards that shut down the game, like "Players can't play cards" and "Heroes can't use powers"
  • There are dinosaurs, and everything is better with dinosaurs! :wink:
  • Obsidian Fields generally help the heroes, making the players feel more powerful and making the heroes better at doing damage.
  • Cards like Volcano result in interesting choices.
The Hero choices we give them are:
  • Ra
  • Fanatic
  • Haka
  • Tempest
  • Expatriette
Yep, Expatriette. She is fun and entertaining, her only search is for a specific couple cards (that differ only slightly) so no knowledge is needed, and the Ammo mechanic is pretty easily understandable (it's right there on the cards). And she blows stuff up. A lot.

We never use Wraith for new players because the choices often require knowing information on cards that aren't readily available. We want folks to be able to make their own decisions, not base their decisions on what the person helping them says is the best option.

We don't use Visionary because she's a manipulator and requires very subtle decisions. (Also, my personal opinion is very few people are sucked into the game because of heroes like her, so we're better off having them play folks like Tempest then trying out Visionary later.)

Legacy is great for the person who knows what they're doing in / running the game, as he'll help everyone else out. It also allows them to introduce the Nemesis rule when going against BB - and to consistently apply it to remind them of it.

Fanatic's attitude is a lot of fun for some folks, so she's always good to include in the choice pool.

 

7

If you have it, theYoung Legacy promo card makes Legacy a much less boring choice as the base power enables her to do damage every turn. Granted you're not quite as awesoem a team player, but it's probably more interesting for a first timer.

8

I've been teaching at least one new person a week here at WKU, it feels like, and honestly, I have no problem bringing new players in against a level 2 villain like Ambuscade or Spite. We do make sure to give the new person an easier hero (our first warning is always "Don't pick Absolute Zero, NightMist, or Argent Adept"), but most people catch on pretty quick and don't exactly need a tutorial level.

9

I suppose it does depend on the audience. Most of the interactions I've been having are with folks I don't know, so I don't have a feeling for their level of understanding for game mechanics, in general. The two folks I knew whom I introduced to the game at GenCon wanted to play Bunker and AZ (and I think it was against the Chairman) with three other folks who were new to the game. I had no issues with that, as they are great at breaking mechanics, so I knew they'd handle it fine. (And they did - and they won!) So yeah, if you know folks well enough, play to their strengths. :sunglasses:

And I agree that other villains definitely work as intro villains, especially folks like Ambuscade. I don't play Spite with new folks primarily because he is such a dark and frustrating villain with lots of disparate things going on; I'd rather introduce them against someone like BB, Ambuscade, or Plague Rat, someone who shows them interesting stuff and opportunities.

  • BB does a good job of showing a little of everything, as he has ongoings, devices, minions, powerful one-shots, etc.
  • Ambuscade forces interesting and challenging decisions, and his trap mechanic is very entertaining.
  • Plague Rat shows some interesting ways the villain can mess with the heroes and forces interesting and challenging decisions.
Omnitron flipping every turn is - to me - annoying and distracting while trying to introduce new players to the game, so while he works well as an introductory villain, I personally prefer not to deal with it when I have more interesting options available. I like making him a second- or third-game villain. (Not that it's wrong to use him as a first-game villain, I just don't like to. :slightly_smiling_face: )

 

And… That's enough avoiding work for the day… :blush:

10

I'm seriously impressed; thanks for all the advice!

It looks like Insala Primis with Baron Blade will be our first scenario, and the first team will be between Ra, Haka, Tempest, and Fanatic. If I'm feeling bold and have enough time to flip through her deck, I might give Unity a try; always loved Forge and The Sentinels Sidekick app certainly piqued my interest when it listed all of her bots (champion bot, turret bot, RAPTOR BOT!).

Also, congratulations for making me even more keen for picking up Rook City and Infernal Relics in the near future

11

Well ... _I_ wanted to give advice, but everybody took mine already! *pout*

 

Harumph. I'll just say that I've seen people really enjoying playing their first time with other decks, too. My sister is not a gamer, but enjoyed all the card playing she got to do w/ Tachyon. I've seen a couple of people enjoy Bunker. In both cases it helped to have someone coach them a bit.

12

Oh, and this is ancillary to the original question, but one of the highlights for me at PAX was the woman who sat down and said she wanted to play a magic user. I handed her Nightmist, she grokked the deck immediately, loved it, and did extremely well.

13

A funny thing happened when I introduced a new player to Expat. He thought that her guns REQUIRED ammo to be shot which confused us at first until someone else at the table figured out why he wasn't shooting every turn.

14

Hello all... I like the advice aswell and will be keeping it in mind. I do have a question though people keep saying to absolutely not to pick absolute zero, night mist, and argent adept. While I will defer to those more knowledgable about the game I do have two questions about that.

 

1. What exactly do they do that make them bad choices?

2. Would you still advise this aswell for advanced gamers who have a decade or more experience in TT/CCG gaming?

 

I ask because one of the guys I'm going to be playing with for the first time tend to choose things based on "this looks/sounds interesting" and I want to be able to give them a heads up on what they are getting themselves into if one of them decides to pick one of these three regardless of suggestion.

15

The thing with Absolute Zero is that there are a lot of numbers to keep track of, and newer players would have trouble keeping up with it.

 

You have to track the damage types, his current HP (changes a LOT), his buffs (he has several) a couple ongoings that deal damage, how much fire damage he takes each round (for coolant blast), how much cold damage he does during his turn (for Thermal Shockwave; this includes any damage from his ongoings and one-shots, as well as damage dealt because of the modules). It's very overwhelming for a new player. A NEW new player should stay away until he's played several other games and learned the mechanics and nuances and stuff. TCG vets will want to not do him their first game, but after that their gamer instincts will take over for them.

 

I can't speak for AA and NightMist (NEXT WEEK I CAN'T WAIT) but they are similarly complicated, but in different ways.

16

In addition to McBehrer's thoughts, AZ and NM both damage themselves. A lot. Treating HP as just another resource is something many folks don't understand and/or aren't comfortable with.

NM also has the random aspect that her cards have spell points on them that she can use to fuel her effect, either by discarding (so she knows what's going to happen) or by revealing the top card of her deck (so she usually doesn't know what's going to happen). The randomness of the latter situation can also put off many folks.

AA has many, many options / permutations available, in addition to having to search his deck and/or trash for Instruments, for which he needs to know and understand what Melodies, Rhythms, and Harmonies he has available… Yeah, he's convoluted, but he has more options available to him than any other character in the game (so far). In addition to that, Arcance Cadence revleas 5 cards from his deck so he can put one in the trash, one in his hand, one on top of the deck, one on the bottom of the deck, and one into play… His turns can take a while - especially when he reveals an Arcane Cadence with an Arcane Cadence! :open_mouth:  (And yes, we've chained 3 and I believe there are 4 in the deck so it's possible to chain 4.)

Having said that, I recommend that new players not play these three for one over-riding reason: with their complexities, I don't think they accurately represent the game in general. They are more complex than the norm, so I don't want to set expectations (good or bad) that they are the norm. But that's just me.

17

While Zero can be powerful, he is also slow to start and can get screwed more easily than any other hero.  Not being able to do anything is fun for nobody, and if you want to play Zero you need to recognize the risks.

 

I dont personally have much sucess with Nightmist either.  Nightmist is probably the best character in the game for not dying.   Her support spells are top notch (Planar Banishment and Mindbind) But its so freaking hard for her to actually do things in the damage department.   Her damage is always random, so you basically always overkill and harm yourself more than you needed to, or don't deal enough damage to take down your target.   She's also a particularly slow starter.

 

I've played a lot with AA now, and while he is an extremely good character, he pretty tough to get a handle on.   Most of his cards are tagged melody, harmony, or ryhthm.   Harmony and rhythm cards have primary effects and secondary effects, melodys only have primary effects.  So you could use the primary effect of any of these cards as your power.   Or you could get an instrument out.   The instruments combine stuff.  Like.. using the primary effect of a rhythm and the secondary effect of a harmony.   Or using two melodies, or using a melody and a secodary from a harmony.   My wife swears that from a musical perspective, which instrument goes with which stuff makes sense.   The horn is primary melody, secondary harmony.   The drum is primary melody, secondary rhythm.   To me,   I have to read the card every single time, and am hoplelessly lost as to what does what.  

18

Ahh thanks for the replies. Now if I am asked why it was suggested not to play X character in your first game I game give a much more solid reason than "Some people on the forums said it was a bad idea"

19

Nightmist is very powerful when you get a handle on her, but it's hard to know what cards to play when. It took me a few games to get good with her. The thing is with her that you're always juggling your cards and your hit points. Almost all of her effects require her to spend cards or hit points. A very frequent thing you find yourself doing is spending hit points for cards so that you can discard a card to gain hit points.

Perversely, she's actually more powerful in some respects when she has a damage penalty, or when she can't deal damage.

I had a very silly game earlier today where me and my brother were taking on the Advanced Ennead in Insula Primalis, we took down Nuit, and then the Ennead Incapacitated all three of the heroes who weren't Nightmist, who then proceeded to take down all eight surviving members of the Ennead, with the help of some friendly dinosaurs*. She had some real trouble the first time Mist Form got blown up, but made it through in the end. The whole thing wouldn't have been possible if Nightmist wasn't able to heal damage while being unable to play cards or use Powers.

That reminds me, the Ennead is not a very friendly bunch of enemies for newbies. Too many weird effects and implications for every card.

* A typical Environment turn went along the lines of: Nephthys is hit by a T-Rex. Three Raptors pull down Nephthys and Incapacitate her.

20

I kinda feel the same way about all three of the level three heroes; they have exactly two modes. They're either:

A) Amazing, fun to play, and a huge help to the team

B) Can't get the right cards, and are a complete crutch to the team, pretty much dead weight

And recently, it seems like Unity has been falling into these categories too. Every game we have her, she's always the first to die, and usually, it's pretty fast. Anyone else have this problem?

Though in Nightmist's case, the problem is usually she has to focus all of her attention on healing herself, and can't get around to a point where she's safe to help others. And even if we do make it to that point, she usually doesn't have enough cards to discard/use. But that's assuming she falls into category B in that game.