This situation has a common sense solution, but I thought I'd check it here anyways, in case my common sense is faulty:
If a card that you can "charge up" like Omni Cannon or Savage Mana (or even the Pterdactyl Thief) gets destroyed when it has cards beneath it, what happens to the cards that are beneath it? Common sense says that they go to the trash too since they're no longer beneath a card, and what else are you going to do with them? However, what happens when a charged-up Omni Cannon is sent to the trash by Mars' Pervasive Red Dust and then brought back out when the dust goes away? Are the cards that were beneath it still beneath it or did the trip to the trash de-charge the card?
Common sense says that of course the card gets de-charged by a trip to the trash, but I can't find rules to support that. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
That's a really good question. For example, cards under Savage Mana have already been destroyed once; can they be destroyed again? Now I must needs know.
It's been answered in other threads that they CAN be destroyed again when Savage Mana specifically says the destroy them. So I'm wondering if they are also destroyed again if savage mana is removed from play.
I'm also curious about the Self-Destruct Sequence on Mars with Akash'Bhuta. If two cards are in the Countdown Pile and SDS is destroyed, would that count as three Environment cards destroyed for her "Avatar of Destruction" side?
I would argue they are discarded, not destroyed, if under a card and that card was destroyed. They were not in play and thus could not be destroyed (though this was under original flavour rules, I've not seen the... oh wait, the Enhanced Edition rulebook is up in the download section now... it uses the same terminology for Destroy, though discard is now removed from the glossary... Hmmm).
Christopher said that with something like Savage mana, destroying it destroys them, so Bunker would draw for them with ammo drop, so I don't see why it wouldn't play out the same way.
Really? Could you link to that please because I have only seen Christopher refer to destroying cards under Savage Mana via the use of the power on Savage Mana (which has the word Destroy in it). If there is a quote from Christopher about destroying cards when Savage Mana itself is destroyed that would be a definative answer for this question.
On the arguement against my interpretation of discarding cards from under other cards when destroyed "Discard" was previously defined as being specifically from your hand, that makes my position so much weaker.
I don't have the original link, but my PDF definitely contains a clarification that cards are considered destroyed when they go beneath Savage Mana (so Bunker gets a card with Ammo Drop) and then are considered destroyed again when he unleashes them (so Bunker gets another card). You may not consider that definitive since I don't have the original link, but I never put anything in that PDF unless it's been stated or confirmed by a SotM luminary.
It has indeed been made official that when activating the power on Savage Mana, the cards are indeed destroyed again. However, the question is if Savage Mana itself is destroyed or somehow removed from play (or Omni Cannon, or Self Destruct Sequence, etc). Are they considered destroyed in that situation? In this case, I have no idea, and thus haven't left a comment on this one.
Though it's not explicitly stated, my sense from re-reading that thread is that whenever Savage Mana would go away, that would count as Savage Mana and all cards underneath Savage Mana being destroyed.
Also, in the process of thinking about this I discovered a typo on Self-Destruct Sequence. The last sentence reads:
Otherwise, discard top card of the countdown pile.
but should read:
Otherwise, discard the top card of the countdown pile.
On a related note, I just played a game against Plague Rat where Absolute Zero died with an infection card on him, the card goes back to the Villain Trash, is it destroyed or just discarded?
It matters for the Plaguebearer side where each hero target takes (H) Toxic damage when an Infection card is destroyed. We played that it did purely because it was getting late and it would set off a chain reaction that wiped out all the heroes!
The rules for Incapacitated say "remove all of that hero's cards from the game", which I've always assumed meant all cards in the hero's play area. I also assumed the removed cards are not destroyed, as they're removed from the game and not sent to the trash. But that's just how I've gone with it.
Christopher, thanks for dropping that bomb ;), but what's your view on the main point in question -- when a charged up card goes away, what happens to the cards beneath it? Are they considered "destroyed" or just discarded, and if the card then comes back from the trash, do the cards that were beneath it come back too?
I had this exact thing happen tonight. I had Omnicannon with 12 cards under it get destroyed by Pervasive Red Dust and then brought back. I'd kinda like a ruling on this too.
> What happens to cards under Omnicannon if Omnicannon is destroyed and/or removed from play? Are the cards under Omnicannon destroyed, moved to the trash, something else? If Omnicannon is brought back, do the cards that were beneath it come back, too? Does it matter if Omnicannon is removed from play due to Bunker being incapacitated vs. Omnicannon being destroyed?
He replied:
> Regardless of how Omnicannon is removed from play (destroyed or put back into hand or Bunker incapacitated), the cards under it are moved to their proper trash piles. They do not go back under Omnicannon if Omnicannon comes back into play. That is a new Omnicannon and has to start charging all over again.
