How do these two cards interact? It seems to me that Expatriette would hit one target, which causes shock rounds to go off, and then the submachine gun would move on and keep hitting and shocking things. Is this correct, or does shock rounds only happen once?
I asked this one to Chris via email, and the answer is simple, Shock Rounds only go off once, because it destroys itself after doing so. As a result, it isn’t there for the next instance of damage dealt byt the Submachine Gun.
So is that true for all Ammo cards that destroy themselves? I was under the impression that if I put Hollow Point on my SMG or Assault Rifle, that every target would take 2 more damage? Is that not the case, or is Shock Rounds worded in a different way?
It isn’t worded differently. My confusion came from the fact that the ammo is destroyed after the power is used, not after the damage is dealt.
Hmm, well, maybe I explained it wrong, but here is the exact quoted response from Chris:
"It only “triggersâ€Â
Oh, I see. So, if I recall correctly, the other ammo types will affect every shot as they modify the power instead of triggering off of it. Thanks 
Yup! Most of the ammo cards (like hollow points) modify all of the damage for a single shot, then are destroyed.
that made sense for a minute there and then I got confused again.
So Hollow Points + SMG: = 3 damage to all targets or 3 damage to first target and 1 damage to all others?
While we’re at it… Pride/Predjudice: Each of them can have up to 2 ammo cards in play next to them at a time. Does this mean:
A: You are “storing” ammo, and can select either ammo type if you have 2 ammo cards next to Pride when you use its power.
B: You use both ammo cards next to Pride when you use its power.
3 damage to all; it’s a temporary increase to the base power, not an additional effect/line on the power like shock rounds
B, the ammo cards do not have a ‘may’ clause in their wording.
(Obviously not official answer but I’m hoping to get a “You’re right” from one of the designers!)
You’re right!
- one of the designers
Woot!
I don't have the card in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the wording on Shock Rounds is no different than on other ammo cards: "After that power is used, destroy this card". Is there any chance the RC+IR republish has corrected this?
I think Shock Rounds might be different because it does it's own hit of damage instead of modifying the original gun's attack.
Doubtlessly this is the intent; I'm just questioning whether the card was worded correctly.
Shock Rounds, like all Ammo Cards, says "After that Power is used, destroy this card" at the end. But the wording on the effect before that varies from ammo to ammo. For instance Hollow Points says "Increase the damage of that cards power...", whereas Shock Rounds says "When that card's power is used to damage a target...".
I originally played Shock Rounds as going off for every target hit, so I see that as the natural reading of it, but I see how it can be read other ways. (The use of the power damages multiple targets, but the power was only used once). Still, Liquid Nitrogen rounds has very similar Trigger wording to Shock Rounds ('after' vs 'when'), and I'm very sure that Liquid Nitrogen rounds affects every target damaged.
I played a game last night and the interaction between Shock Rounds and Sub-Gun came up to some mild debate.
We were playing a rather tough game against Gloomweaver (We use one minor houserule for him where he starts with the Strength from the Grave Ongoing. Works well for us. The big damage spike in the begining sets a better tone) in Pike Industrial. So you can imagine that, at times, there were a lot of targets in play.
Shock Rounds allows you to deal all non-villain targets 1 damage any time you damage a target with the current guns power. Shock Rounds also says that it destroys itself "after the Power is used".
With 5 non-villain targets in play, this is how it played out:
- SubGun hits target #1
- Shock Rounds hits targets #1-5
- SubGun hits target #2
- Shock Rounds hits targets #1-5
- ect ect...
Now, we had an Irradiated Vat out giving SubGun damage and Shock Round damage a +1 boost. If you can navigate choosing your target order correctly, this resulted in a massive amount of damage especially to Gloomy. The debate, surprisingly, wasn't centered around if we played it correctly. Given the offical ruling for the Seaweed/Bio-Beam interaction, it was agreed that Shock Rounds would stay in play for the duration of SubGuns damage sequence.
In fact, the discussion was about whether a 2-card-combo should be that powerfull. It was interesting. On one hand, it has crazy damage potential as it grows exponentially with # of targets AND +damage modifiers. On the other hand, when considered within the context of her deck as a whole (and lets keep the mega thread about "fixing" her in mind as well), that power seems to be justified to offset her other shortcomings.
It has already been stated that Shock Rounds only trigger on the first instance of damage. Just because Bio-Beam/Seaweed was ruled one way, doesn't change the fact that Shock Rounds + Submachine Gun was already ruled to only work on the first instance of damage.
So I guess we need an official ruling again. I use Expat a lot, so I want to get it right.
Edit: Ronway for the ninja. I was going to comment further about how developer input didn't matter, we just make up our own thing, but I guess we're good again?
I guess I didnt read the first few posts carefully as it wasn't clear the answer was definitive. Rabbits quote shows up to me as scribbly letters, so I wasnt totally sure what the actual response was. If it is ment to go off once then I sorta expect it to be rewritten for the RC reprint. Just to keep consistency with other rulings (like biobeam/seaweed).
The card says "When the power is used to damage a target", not "when the power damages a target", which makes me fairly certain it's meant to trigger only once. Although the timing is definitely weird - first Sub-Gun hits one target, then Shock Rounds hit all targets, then Sub-Gun hits all targets except the one it already hit. It'd play more naturally if Shock Rounds waited to resolve until after the gun was completely resolved, but that doesn't seem to be how this game works.