House Rules for Adding a 6th player?

Other Games SotM Game Engine
1

 

Has anyone made any adjustments to the base SotM game to allow for a 6th player?

I'd be hesitant to toss in a 6th as is, as our group generally finds the game pretty easy with 5 people as is, though we have a 6th player this week and it's likely that we'll have a go at SotM.

My original inclination was something like this:

1) the base villain gets half again their normal hit points at the game start.

2) all minions get +1 base hp.

3) after 3 heroes, the villain gets an additional card flip.  Not an additional turn--just a single card.

 

Thoughts?  Comments?  Is this a reasonable increase in challenge, or am I setting us up for frustration?  

 

2

The first two sound like they would make things significantly difficult. As for the third one though, if it plays a minion it will not get to act and the heroes can immediately wipe it out. Maybe either revealing cards until a one-shot is revealed than reshuffle the revealed cards back into the deck? Or maybe allowing minions to immediately activate their end of turn card text.

3

I have played a few games with six players and just normal rules (with H=6).  Omnitron was easily dispatched, but the Ennead were extremely fierce with H at 6.

The only villains I could think of which are actually broken by six players is plague rat (he can't infect everyone) and Gloomweaver (he doesn't have 6 zombies to put in play).  But as you said, several villains still become easier with more players, even with the H mechanic.

4

 

Thinking on it more, the 1.5x hit points might be overshooting the mark.  However, I get the impression that most villains would go down too quickly with that little hp.

You're dead on about the minion, though.  Poor little guy should at least have one shot to wreak some havoc!

 

5

Probably the easiest thing to do would be instead of creating a bunch rules to let a sixth person on the team, is to just have two games with three players each.

6

or have one person play the villain ?

(something i suggested to someone else over at boardgamegeek forums) if you want someone to be the villain, some choices for that player might be ..

(a) play the villain deck as is per the rules

(b) when in the villain draw phase, the villain draws 2 cards, selects one to put in to play, and puts the other at the bottom of the villain deck

(c) when in the villain draw phase, the villain draws 3 cards, selects on to put in to play, puts an unselected card at the bottom of the villain deck, and puts the other unselected card at the top of the villain deck.

those options offer various levels of choice for the villain player (though at the same time increases villain danger by giving an actual brain behind it rather than simple random chance)

 

(and if that same person also runs the environment deck, i'd say to not alter how the environment deck gets player - it's the environment, it should be randomly neutral, as is, without smoeone selecting what gets player)

 

7

 

Oooh, I like Option C.  I might just do that...

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

8

Wouldn't option C just make cards like Infrared Eye Piece and Precognition a little pointless?

9

Not necessarily. You're still taking a card out of rotation or forcing it as one of their options. It's still a huge nerf to villain deck manipulation but it's OP anyway, so whatever.

The bigger problem is that by allowing the villain player to bury cards, you're giving the villain a GIGANTIC boost. Burying a card every turn means that you're going to get a chance to see every card in the deck twice as fast. Think of the Matriarch getting Huginn and Muninn out twice as fast, or Gloomweaver actually being able to get to his Relics ever. I mean, do what you want, but realize how much you're helping the Villain and try to stick to only the very easiest villains unless you want your one to beat your many 80% of the time. This isn't Descent, you know.

10

Yeah, people keep say they're going to try things like this, but we never hear back from them.  If you do this, make sure to tell us about how it went!

11

I've only played Descent once. It was pretty awesome.

12

I have the game set up as I type, and am merely waiting for my victims - er, friends - to arrive…  :smiling_imp:

13

Our game night is Friday, so I'll be sure to post the results afterwards!

14

I'd suggest trying to complete a story challenge from the creators. That or one of Spiff's scenarios. Those sometimes make the game interesting. I'm working on a similar set of scenarios that use all the cards available. One of my scenarios that would work well with 6 heroes is a 2 vs. 6 battle where there are 2 villains. The 2nd villain's turn comes after player 3. You may have to house rule things as you go, though.

15

Interesting!  Does H=6 or 3, in that case.  While H=6 is literally true, I think that H=Number of heroes/Number of villians might be closer to "normal" odds of a victory.

16

I use a similar 2 v. 6 system in cases when we have 6 players and one to play one epic battle. 

I set up the two villains at opposite ends of the table and then place the heroes in between them, 3 on each side. Sometimes we use two environments (rook city/pike complex/metropolis mix decently well) most times just one. The turn order then goes Villain1, Hero1, Hero2, Hero3, (Environment2 if used), Villain2, Hero4, Hero5, Hero6, Environment1. 

The added rules we use are as follows:

1. Every hero chooses a side to face at the beginning. All damage they issue can only affect targets on that side (Villains, minions, environment [if two are used] etc.). 

2. Both villain's actions affect ALL heroes. However, H is the number of heroes facing that villain. Damage dealt to heroes NOT facing the source of damage have a +1 blind-side penalty. 

3. During their turn, heroes may skip any phase of their turn (play card, use power, or draw) and instead use that phase to turn and face the other way. This cannot be done during turns where a card or effect makes a hero skip that phase of their turn already. 

4. Highest HP and lowest HP are determined as in the normal game regardless of where the hero is facing, so the blind-side penalties can get brutal sometimes.  Especially when 5 heroes are facing one way and 6th one gets hit. 

We use tokens with arrows to denote which way the heroes are facing. 

Havent had a chance to play this too many times to really see all possible scenarios and see where it may not work, but overall we have managed to do it and had fun doing it too. It really adds an element of strategy and coordination figuring out which way to face when. 

It does add more to keep track off, so that might be a turn off... and it makes the games longer... but when we are feeling like having some very involved and epic battles we give it a shot. 

 

17

Wow. That seems really cool!

18

That is... Really damn cool. I might have to try that sometime.

19

 

Unfortunately, my plans for a 6 person game were somewhat shot down this weekend.  

We ended up with 8 people, splitting into two groups of 4.  However, if we end up running SotM sometime again, it's likely we'll have 6, so we can give the house rules a whirl.

20

 

Whew.  Okay, so we tried a 6-player variant this evening based on the feedback and ideas collected here.  It...didn't go very well for our heroes.

To start, we went with 5 hero players against one villain player.  On the villain player's turn, he could either:

a) Draw 3 cards, placing one on the bottom of his deck, one in his hand, and one into play.

b) Play a card from his hand.

After 3 heroes had gone, the villain would also get to immediately flip the top villain card.  If it was a One-Shot or Ongoing, it would take place immediately.  If it was a minion/villain target, it would enter play but not act until the villain's actual turn. 

Any card that prevented the villain deck from playing cards affected both occasions, essentially preventing two plays.

Environment deck played as normal at all times.

For the first two games, all minions/drones/etc. also received one extra hit point.

 

Game 1--Omnitron in the Tomb of Anubis.  Heroes:  Nightmist, AZ (Wrath), Tachyon (Leader), Tempest, Wraith

Two sets of Sedative Flechettes and two Technological Singularities  spelled doom for this group.  Omnitron had approximately 40 hp left before the last Flechettes finished off the heroes.  It didn't help that I also pulled both Electro-Explosives within 3 turns, which the heroes handled fairly well.  Tachyon got a fantastic draw on this game, pulling all three of her damage negating cards in the first 3 turns, effectively preventing huge amounts of damage at the game's outset.

Game 2--Baron Blade in Megalopolis.  Heroes:  Argent Adept, AZ, Legacy (Old Man), Tempest, Wraith

This one wasn't even close.  Blade got out three Hasten Dooms, all three Mobile Defense Platforms, and his Backlash Field.  By the time the Heroes could actually function, the Baron was 2 cards away from pulling the moon into the Earth, with a Platform still in play.  No chance, whatsoever.

Game 3--Warlord Voss in Insula Primalis.  Heroes:  Argent Adept, Legacy (Old Man), Tachyon (Leader), Ra, Nightmist

We dropped the minion rule after game 2, figuring that it would make Voss a little easier.  And, true enough, it did.  It also helped that my group--which usually picks heroes based on their current whims ("I played a buff-bot last time; I want a damage dealer this game.)--decided to make a balanced, well-rounded team.  The start of their game was not aided by the Prescence of a Gene-Bound Guard in the opening flop, and a pull of the flagship soon after.  AA managed to blow up the flagship at the cost of an instrument, and a well-timed Oblivion cleared the field of minions.  Unfortunately, a second flagship and Voss's fearsome damage resulted in a tpk by round 5.

 

General consensus around my table was that the additional flop partway through the Hero turns was what really imbalanced the game.  Villains could simply output damage too fast for Heroes to keep up, particularly when the villain has access to ongoing/equipment destruction.  My players had few disagreements in terms of the villain deck mechanic itself--they still put a high value on limiting my options, and potentially removing dire cards.  

Adding an intellect to the villain deck definitely changes how its played.  The instant you have options, a whole new world of difficulty opens up for the hero players, as the villain player will likely build at least 1 turn ahead, planning out card plays to have the most impact, rather than randomly.  

My group is still interested in the challenge offered by a villain player, and wants to give it another go, after some refinement.  I believe that the extra hp for minions would make an excellent replacement for the extra villain card, while easing up on the overall pain.  I'll ideally I've this a run sometime in the near future and see how it goes!

I would definitely NOT suggest running a human villain on advanced mode, though!  It's pain enough to have an evil mastermind behind the cards, much less mechanical advantages as well!