This came up with The Sentinels vs. Miss Information
Medico's Signature, Hippocratic Oath, states "Whenever Dr. Medico would deal damage, prevent that much damage and instead 1 hero target regains that much HP."
Mainstay had used Block (damage dealt to the Sentinels is reduced by 1)
Miss I. caused each Hero Target to deal themselves 2 damage.
Does Dr.. Medico heal someone for 2, or just 1 (because Block would have reduced the damage before Medico would have dealt it)? What about if Galvanize was also active (Hero damage increased by 1), Would Medico heal someone for 3, or 2?
My understanding is 2 health restored in both cases. I could see 1, 2, being an option (both DI and DR affect before it becomes healing), but not 1, 3 (DI affects it, but not DR).
That’s tricky. Hm. Even though damage isn’t being applied, but rather converted to healing, I would argue the amount of healing is still based on the damage that would have been inflicted after modifiers; so 1 in the first case, and 2 in the second.
See also: Absolute Zero. Cold damage to him is converted to healing, after being affected by damage modifiers. I would imagine a similar thing applies here.
Had Meerkat not beaten me to it, I'd've suggested Ab'Zero as well, as an example of "when you would take damage, prevent it and heal that much instead". A Galvanised Ab'Zero using his base power when he has Focused Apertures and his NPCU out will recover 3hp.
In Medico's case, he's supposed to be hitting himself for two points, but Block reduces that to one, and then the damage is converted to healing instead. At least, that's how I see it.
That's a good point, but I feel that treating it the same way falls into the spirit of the other rulings regarding damage dealt, such as AZ's Thermal Shockwave, where damage dealt is equal to life lost.
I don't think it matters - I think you'd apply any modifications to the damage as normal, but right before the hp are removed, then you perform the final conversion (so, Ab'Zero regains that much hp while Medico heals someone of his choice). So if both characters had one point of soak and were supopsed to be dealing one point of damage, the soak would reduce that to zero so no healing would occur as no damage would've been dealt.
Agreed - the only difference is that in general with Medico, you can aim at targets without soak (or even with increased damage dealt to them) to maximise your healing.
Ooo, new question: If Medico with Hippocratic Oath aims at Fright Train with Engine of Destruction [+1 to the first instance of damage dealt to him each turn], does the fact that the damage is converted into healing before it hits him mean that a subsequent attack in the same turn would still get the damage boost, or does Medico's attack use it up despite being turned into healing?
I would tentatively say no, since he didn't actually TAKE damage; it would get the buff, but since the card says "the first time he takes damage," and he doesn't actually take damage, the buff would still be there for the next guy.
I agree on that - Medico would have been dealing Fright Train damage, but it gets converted to healing at the very last moment, thus Fright Train receives healing rather than damage (not sure why you'd want to heal him but I presume we're being hypothetical here ;)) and his "+1 damage the first time he gets hit" thingy remains. I think that basically boils down to the old "If no hp were lost, no damage was dealt/taken" thing.
Hippocratic Oath doesn't force you to heal the original target of the damage---you prevent that damage and instead 1 hero target regains that much HP. So you can use Fright Train as a damage scapegoat to heal whoever else---but no healing Dr. Tremata.
One thing I hadn't considered before---since each of the Sentinels is a nemesis for each other member of the Sentinels, if you have Dr. Medico target one of his teammates, you should get the nemesis bonus on your damage before it converts to healing for whoever you're helping out. Won't apply in the original post from this thread, where Dr. Medico is hitting himself, but if the healing is from something like Horrifying Dichotomy, you should be able to use that to wring an extra HP out of the deal.
Dr. Medico's Oath turns it to healing when he "Would deal damage," and damage is never dealt if it is turned to healing.
Fright Trains Engine of Destruction increase the first damage dealt to him, but if the damage isn't dealt to him, it isn't increased.
I'd think that it wouldn't get the increase, because the choice to turn it into healing is before the damage is dealt, but the increase occurs as the damage is dealt.
Kind of like "until the start of turn" doesn't time up with "at the start of turn."
Except that by that logic, I'd argue that turning the damage into healing should remove all damage modifiers. Which is a legitimate position, but consensus has been that that's not how it works.
This is one of those instances that might actually be solvable through Order of Operations.
Because its whenever he would deal damage you can convert it, the player might very well have a choice whether to take damage modifications into account for the healing conversion. Just in the same way the player can choose whether or not to take Fortitude's 1DR into account either before or after Super Human Durability.
AbZero is a good example, but I think the differences between them are significant enough.