Infinite Infinitor Loop!

So we already knew it was possible to get an infinite loop with Apostate (I forget if that was resolved with the fireside chats) but someone on BGG pointed out a new loop with Infinitor!

 

Haka eats all of Infinitor's manifestations with Savage Mana.

Infinitor is on his front side and in advanced mode.

His end of turn text will play every card in his deck for ever.

If damage is reduced to all targets by 1 (say with a Biomemetic Plasma Vat) no one can ever die and the game locks up!

 

Anyone see any problems in the logic of this?

Fireside chat hasn't been released for Infernal Relics yet but the Aposate infinite loop will be covered.  

On-shots remain in play until their entire text has resolved (including the next played card)

 

So Infinitor plays a one-shot, which plays another one-shot, etc etc until every one-shot in is deck has been played.  Then he shuffles the trash and continues playing one-shots until the deck is empty again.  Then he reshuffles again.  But now the trash is empty so the deck stays empty, he can't do anything, and he fails to play a card.  Then all the one-shots resolve and are put in the trash.

 

No errata is needed.

 

EDIT: see here

I thought this issue had been brought up in another thread here as well and it was still thought to be an infinite loop.  Maybe I'm confusing this with the BGG thread. 

 

Edit:  thanks Arcanist I thought maybe it had been resolved but I couldn't recall offhand.  

But the One Shots are resolved before his ability stops playing cards. They hit the trash once the last One Shot cannot play another card but before he tries to play a second one.

If Infinitor has no manifestations in his deck all of his one shots play the top card of the villain deck.  Thus they stay in play and would not go to the discard pile until no more cards can be played.  

Right.

So he plays a card. That plays a card, that new card plays a card etc until all cards are in play.

Then the cards resolve, discarding them all.

Then Infinitor checks to see if manifestations are in play, there are not so he plays a card, reshuffling the trash into the deck and going again.

 

He doesn't "check" before the cards are resolved. Does he?

The check for H occurs as the card is played and the one shots can't resolve until it plays the next card. There is no chance for the one shots to fully resolve until there are no more cards left to play.  

Edit: Think about the Informant with the Chairman.  It causes him to play a card immediately when a hero does tries putting a card into play. The card the hero card played does not get to resolve until Informant's action is done. 

Apostate loop? I can't say I've heard of that, please explain

Haka Rampages with enough plus to damage to kill Relic Spirit, which brings back Runes of Malediction. Haka continues to Rampage, destroys the Runes, which brings back Relic Spirit. That gets destroyed which brings back the Runes, etc.

Runes of Malediction and Relic Spirit.   The Runes of Malediction put Demons in the trash into play when destroyed and Relic Spirit puts relics into play when destroyed.  So if you have high enough damage from a card like Rampage you could destroy the Runes, then when the Relic Spirit is destroyed it would put the Runes back into play, since it's a new target you would destroy the Runes again, that causes the Relic Spirit to come back, and this cycle would continue.   Once MigrantP lists the fireside chat for Infernal Relics it will be cleared up on how that loop is broken.  

Edit: ninjaed

Ok I can understand that.

But on thinking about it now you hit another problem. If the check occurs after the One Shot enters play but before you perform any action written on the card itself then every card that is played will play every card that comes after it (because none of them use their innate "play a card" text before the manifestation check plays a card).

The last card played from Infinitor's deck (Card Z) it will do its thing and then try to play a card from Infinitor's deck, but because they are all in play it  will have nothing to play, not even from his trash. It will resolve and then enter the trash.

Card Y will then resolve. It will have a card to play, Card Z, once that is played there will be nothing to play so cards Z & Y will enter the trash.

Card X will then resolve. It will have a card to play, Card Z, which will itself have a card to play, Card Y. Once that is played there will be nothing to play so cards Z, Y & X will enter the trash.

etc etc.

 

I guess it's not an infinite loop but it will play Card Z 10 times, Y 9 times, X 8 times, etc, more than enough to finish the game one way or another!

Wooo.   I succeeded at convincing someone on game rules :grin:

Achievement unlocked. There is no actual physical reward, though.

Sweet is this at least a 25 point achievement?  Maybe even a 50 point achievement?

You get nil points.

You have set your own bar high enough that you are expected to do this, exceedingly so.

:confused:  My badge is working against me

At least you can have the satisfaction of a job well done.

I guess that will do.