Been playing Sentinels with some friends for about 8 months off-and-on when we can. Recently I got all the expansions and we've been playing a lot more. However, our win ratio is terrible. We can barely hold a 25% win ratio (my best guess). We all really like this game for numerous reasons, but a really big factor is that we can play heroes we like. At least that's what we used to be able to do. Nowadays it seems that if we don't metagame and find heroes that should do well against a boss, we just get stomped. We all have favorite heroes that we just enjoy playing more than others, but I feel like we can no longer play those characters when we want to if we want to win. It's not nearly as much fun when you lose all the time. :(
We've noticed recently that it seems most of the villains chain terribly. We'll be going along just fine, taking out minions, trading damage with the boss, chipping away at him...then he chains and we're all dead. Plague Rat, Citizen Dawn, Iron Legacy, The Ennead, Akash'Buta...we've had games with all of them where we hit a point in the game where they chain and just wipe the floor with us.
If I had to place blame, I'd probably put 60/40 between the villains/environments. Environments are definitely out to get the heroes, and it shows. Either the environment triggers something for the villain, or vice versa, and sometimes both.
One of the most severe examples was a game we had recently against Omnitron. I forget which environment it was, but we had to play the top card from the villain and environment decks in order to get rid of an environment card. We did that on the environment's turn, which pulled out Omnitron's 15hp device that does damage at the start of his turn based on it's hp. That hit everyone for 15, then his play phase pulled out his card that does damage based on Equipment you have in play. Between the end of environment and start of villain turns, Wraith went from 26hp to dead without any way we could have anticipated or mitigated that.
TL:DR
My questions: Do you guys find that you need to metagame to win? Do you see the villains/environments chain frequently?
It's gotten to the point now where I'm now building a "cheat sheet" of short snippets about each villain/environment so that we know not to use certain combos together and/or what to expect. IMO, that takes some of the fun out of playing but I feel that we either have to do that, or we lose. It could just be that we've had a bad luck streak...but it just doesn't feel that way. Any input is appreciated.
As the game and its expansions have gone on, the difficulty curve has increased a lot. Mainly in the form of "Destroy (H) Ongoing/Equipment cards" and "Search the deck/graveyard for (H) cards and put them into play. Play the top card of the villain deck." I HATE cards like that, but that's where the villains seem to be going in terms of difficulty. Our win rate is good, but we definitely talk about who is playing what in certain games, and often times if someone is playing a hero that will be completely stomped against a certain villain or environment, we choose something else and go from there.
My gaming group (wife, daughter) win almost every time. We play 5-hero games, with the girls running two heroes each. Yes, we run into those cards which resurrect those zillion minions we just spend all our time taking out, but that's how it goes I guess. We've never needed a cheat sheet.
If you're losing so consistently on non-Advanced mode, I'd have to assume you may be missing some rules or handling something incorrectly. Though from your description, I can't tell what.
Some games are just tough. Heck even baron gets me every now and then. I have a very high win rate, and I randomize every game (also know the decks very well).
It's possible you are playing a rule wrong. Maybe you need more team communication, or a more sound strategy? With the same team of heros and cards, I'd play dawn much different than enead for example.
If you could provide specifics of games or set ups your group has trouble with, I'm sure you will get rained upon with suggestions and tips. I'm always down to talk strategy
This was my original thought as well. So, my brother and I have been really trying to make sure we're playing things correctly and that definitely ISN'T helping. lol But, we'll keep double-checking our rules.
Another good point I forgot to mention, 98% of the games I'm talking about are on regular mode. I think we've only played 2 or 3 games ever on Advanced.
BTW Spiff, your clarifications pdf is just plain awesome. That answered numerous questions that we've had. It's so awesome in fact, I'm picking up my copy I had printed at FedEx Office into a really nice booklet on my way home today. Excellent work, and I know my group will really appreciate it.
I do find that the main way I lose is stuff chains out, or the villain lucks into a combo with the environment. The thing is, those crisis spikes are fun for me. Those moments when you go "Aw man, we are so boned," drive you to play harder. If you just evenly coast to victory it's not as satisfying.
That said, my group has like an 85% win rate (non-advanced), and we do not pick teams specifically to counter villains. Typically a couple people random, a couple people want to play something specific, and I'll fill in a role or play something I haven't played in a while.
The 4-difficulty villains you're going to need a few certain things on the team, but that's more about avoiding the complete lack of something. Iron Legacy with no ongoing destruction is harsh. The 3s you should be pretty much okay picking anything.
The average win rate is significantly higher than that, though. I'd recommend looking at Spiff's semi-official FAQ and Flamethrower's (and other's) guides to see if you're missing anything important. It's possible you're just getting unlucky, but more likely it's a combination of factors.
I randomize my games and have been doing well so far, about 70-80% on Advance. Rather than making a list of what heroes don't work against which villain, it's better to understand each villain better and know what's their threats and strategize how to overcome them. Eg, planning for forced deployment.
O man, we've pulled out a couple games at crazy low hp. I remember once I had Fanatic at 1hp and she killed the boss with her "I hit for how many hp I'm missing" card on the last turn before we were going to die. It was awesome, and I agree, those are the best times! :D
However, since the EE it's been a graveyard unless we metagame. Just wanted to see what others' experiences were. If we could get to the point where we can use a randomizer that would be ideal.
I think it may be helpfull to adress specific aspects of metagaming seperately. I would like to focus on deck familiarity, deck efficacy and player efficacy. Other posts have advised becoming more familiar with the hero, enviroment and villain decks, and doing so will greatly reduce the need to metagame, but it does take time. For now, you and your group may benefit from acceleration and reveal effects. Wraith’s Infrared Eyepeice, Visionary’s Precognition and Nightmist’s Astral Premonition all let you reveal cards from the villain deck and choose which card will be played next. If you are unfamiliar with a deck or haven’t played it in some time than this gives you a refresher without stopping the game. If those characters are early in the rotation then later characters can react accordingly.
Certain decks are more effective against certain enviroments and villains, and deck familiarity will help identify that. In your example Visionary is very effective against Omnitron, and Wrest the Mind can shut down and Electro-Pulse Explosive. Did Wraith have an Infrared Eyepeice in hand or play? A well timed Inventory Barrage can also save Wraith from Technological Singularity. Equiptment heavy heroes in general will have a harder time with Omnitron.
I have been playing since before Rook City, and I generally only pick a character specifically for a villain when playing with new players or when someone else is playing a character for the first time. Legacy, Team Leader Tachyon, Argent Adept and Scholar are all good choices for protecting or assisting a specific player or character. I hope at least one of these thoughts is helpfull.
More heroes also helps. If you are playing with three heroes try four or five. The H mechanic helps, but 3 hero games win at about 60% rather then the 80% for 4 or 5.
Some villains can be a lot easier with three heroes depending on the draw. Apostate does a lot less damage and the Dreamer summons less projections and requires less of them to be killed for victory. The Assistant only needs two clue cards to flip with a team of three which can make her easier to handle. On average though, a team of 5 will fare much better than a team of 3.
That's a great point. I'll have to keep that in mind.
Yeah, this would have been awesome had I had it in hand at the time. We played a second game as a rematch and that was definitely something I tried to hang on to.
I would probably say since the advent of (H) cards, I've found 5 heroes is just as hard as 3. In fact, we've probably won more of our 3 hero games than our 5 hero games since I've gotten the EE and expansions. Interesting…we'll have to try some more 5 hero games.
From my personal experience, the only fight harder with 3 heros is the chairman. Just because the damage output of the deck (the gunman/contract combo) is not [H] dependent.
All of my solo games are 3 heros. I do not lose often on normal with total random games. I really think 3 hero games are pretty easy.
Have you read flamethrower49's guides? They I think are invaluable when you're trying to run characters more efficiently. I don't believe they are gospel, but information verified against two reliable sources.
We generally don't metagame, but we all have our favorites. A group with (someone), OmniX, Unity, and Visionary is going to be okay most fights. We're trying to broaden, but Raptorbots is so much fun.