New Argent Adept player question (harp+supertonic selfheal loop)

Other Games SotM Game Engine
1

Hey folks,

 

I just got my Argent Adept yesterday in the mail and he is my son’s new favorite hero.  However, we quickly (2nd game out of the box) ran into a rather interesting scenario that I can't puzzle out why it won't work but it seems rather OP. 

 

2 cards in play: = infinite selfheal loop ???

 

So if we have Musaragni's harp and Inspiring Supertonic in play, what stops Argent Adept from triggering both the perform and accompany on 'supertonic' then using the preforms play another power now action to activate the harp again + gain 2hp rinse and repeat ? 

Is there something that prevents us from using the harp repeatedly to activate supertonics two texts?  If no, then one heal loop later he is back at full HP.

 

Thanks in advance for your insight. 

 

 

2

You can’t use the same power from the same card twice in a turn. You can only use a second power from a second card. The only exception is if the card outright says you can (e.g. Mr. Fixer’s Overdrive).

Welcome to the forums!

3

Yup. Thats why, for example, Wraiths Razor Ordinance and stuff are limited so you can't use those powers twice with Utility Belt in play.

Welcome aboard the forums.

4

Yes, as Pydro said.

If you can get multiple copies of a power in play you can use them, like Wraith's Stun Bolts and Legacy's Next Evolution.

5

Yup, its is right there in the rules book huh…  Only use one power from the same card.  I knew it was too good to be true :confused:

 

Thanks again. 

6

Note however that this is true of Powers, not of Performs or Accompanies; those can in fact be used multiple times off the same card.  So if you played Silver Shadow, then powered the Harp to perform the Supertonic to power the Bell, you could gain at most 6 HP in one turn.  That is pretty much the most healing any character can get at once apart from the Scholar's "Get Out of the Way!" or Fanatic's Aegis of resurrection, though, and both of those are situational whereas this will work anytime you have the cards for it.  (It remains to be seen whether Dr. Medico will top this; it seems probable.)

7

Oh man, I remember during my first few games when we constantly used the same Power twice.  In my defense, the friend that was teaching us the rules told us this was okay, and in his defense, his roommate (the owner of the game) taught him this was okay.

 

So there we were, double Galvanizing/Motivationsl Charging as Legacy, and double Grenade Launchering as Turret Mode Bunker.  No wonder Citizen Dawn was so darn easy for us.

8

Argent Adept is able to heal 10 HP at most in a single round, if you plays 2 Silver Shadows to activate the accompany of Inspiring Supertonic for a total of 4 HP, followed by a Vernal Sonata fo an additional 1 HP. Then using the Harp to activate the Perform and Accompany of the Inspiring Supertonic, followed by the Horn to activate the Accompany of Inspiring Presence and the Perform of Rhapsody of Vigor. However he can consistantly regain 5 HP by just using his powers.

At most for the Scholar in a single round, excluding "Get Out of the Way!" as the number of villain targets is too big of a variable. If he has all 3 copies of Solid to Liquid in play and if he had played Expect the Worst on his last turn, then the start of his current turn would regain 5 HP, then he could play any one of his one-shots that heal for 2, which gets bumped up to 5 as well, then his power Better Living to regain 4, bringing his total to 14. Though he can consistantly heal 4 HP every round with his three Solid to Liquid and his base power.

If Fanatic incaps herself at the start of her turn while Aegis is in play, she will regain 10 HP, then any one-shot she has that recovers HP can give her another 1 HP. Bringing her to 11 HP in a single round without any consistant healing. While Redeemer Fanatic can actually heal for 12 in a single round and consistantly heal 1 HP.

Absolute Zero can reach 12 HP in a single turn, if he has Focused Apertures, Cryo Chamber, Isothermic Transducer, Null-Point Callibration Unity, and Thermal Shockwave in play. Firstly he would play Hoarfire, target himself with the 2 cold damage, which would become 4 healing. Then the last bit will deal him 1 cold, which becomes 3 healing. Using Thermal Shockwave he can hit himself for another 1 cold, becoming 3 healing. As long as he get at least 1 point of fire damage into himself from Thermal Shockwave, he can direct the cold damage to himself to gain a net of 2 healing. He can consistanly use the power, so he can gain 5 HP every round.

NightMist can at most regain 24 HP in a single round, with Starshield Necklace in play. She would need to play Mist-Fueld Recovery to shuffle someone's trash of 40 cards in their deck, leading to a 20 HP gain. It will immediatly end her turn, where she can discard a 4 card to regain an additonal 4 HP. NightMist can constantly gain 2 to 8 HP if she has Starshield Necklace and Master of Magic in play, as long as she plays a spell and discards a card at the end.

Bunker can gain 6 HP in a single round, if he has Turret Mode, 3 copies of Maintenance Unit, and Auxilliary Power Source all in play. At the start of his turn he can destroy the Power Source to use an additional Power, thus using all 3 Maintenance Units. He can gain 4 HP consistantly however, with just 2 Maintenance Units and Turret Mode.

Haka can currently gain the most HP in a single turn, by being at 1 HP and playing a Haka of Shielding, discarding 33 cards for a total of 33 HP. No way of doing healing consistantly.

Chrono-Ranger and Legacy can both regain 1 HP every turn. Omnitron-X and Tempest can regain 2 HP every turn. Wraith and Ra can at most regain 3 HP in a turn, but rather inconsistantly. Currently Tachyon, Visionary, Expat, Mr. Fixer, and Unity cannot regain their HP at all.

9

slow clap

10

For Haka, I think you mean Haka of Restoration, not Shielding...

11

I don't think you meant Inspiring Presence.  But I stand corrected.  I completely forgot about AZ and Haka's healing options, and I did mention Scholar, even if there are more cards of note than the one I brought up.

Currently Tachyon, Visionary, Expat, Mr. Fixer, and Unity cannot regain their HP at all.

Except, of course, through teamwork.

12

Or through external cards like the Positive Energy Field. But that goes for everyone so I suppose it doesn't count.

13

Looks like Ronway was looking at a character and self-help only.

14

Well, you can't control when Positive Energy Field (or Biomemetic Vat or other such cards) shows up, if you're even playing in the right Environment.  But every hero has access to healing just by choosing to partner with Argent or Tempest or Legacy (note to self: play the All-Healers Team sometime against a villain consistently violent enough to be worth it).  So my point was that the heroes that Ronway mentioned are the ones who have other options to heal, but any hero can heal by having the right teammates, in addition to other such options.

15

Yes, but they are not regain their HP, it is other heroes regaining their HP for them.

16

Well, since we now want healing for teams, I guess I could do that.

The most healing that can be done to a team consistantly, is 4 HP, with Fanatic playing Embolden on Tempest. Then Tempest using 2 copies of Cleansing Downpour.

The most I could think of, that is currently possible to regain any given hero target in a single turn is 15 HP. It requires Tempest, Scholar, Argent Adept, Omnitron-X, and the fifth hero target to be the focus of the healing.  Tempest would need both copies of Cleansing Downpour in play. Argent Adept will need the Lyra, Harp, Pipes, Horn, Drum, 2 Rhapsody of Vigors, Alacritous Subdominant, Inspiring Supertonic, and Inventive Preperation in play and a Vernal Sonata being the third card on the top of his deck.. Scholar will need both copies of Proverbs and Axioms, one on top of his deck and the other in hand, with a copy of Don't Dismiss Anything also in hand. Omnitron-X will needs both copies of Inventive Preperation in play.

On Omnitron-X's turn, at the start he will heal the fifth hero for a total of 2 HP. Then on Omni-X's power phase, he will Timeshift the Scholar, putting Proverbs and Axioms into play, causing the fifth hero to regain another 2 HP. Then Tempest will take the damage to use a power, Cleansing Downpour, the fifth hero regains another 2 HP. Argent Adept will also use a power, He will activate the Harp for the perform of Inspiring Supertonic, into the Lyra for Inspiring Supertonic's perform, which will finally activate the Pipes, for both copies of Rhapsody of Vigor, healing the fifth hero for yet another 2 HP. Then we will back track to the Lyra's accompany, which will be Inventive Preperation, allowing Scholar to play another card, which so happens to be Proverbs and Axioms, regaining the fifth hero another 2 HP and allowing Tempest to use his second copy of cleansing downpour again, for another 2  HP. Then we finally get back to Argent's string of powers, the Harp's accompany will trigger Alacritous Subdominant, so Argent can use a power now, he'll use that to activate the Horn, which will then do the perform of Rhapsody of Vigor to heal the fifth HP be 1 HP. The accompany will the the Alacritous Subdominant again, so another power which will be the Drums. Activating the perform of Rhapsody yet again, for 1 HP. He can now also activate the accompany of Inventive Preperation again, allowing Scholar to play Don't Dismiss Anything, which will play Vernal Sonata for an additional 1 HP.

Now if you want to factor in the environment, currently only Ruins of Atlantis and Realm of Discord can effect healing on the hero's turns. In the Ruins case, if both Phosphorescent Chambers are in play, increase every instance of healing by 2. That is 11 Instances, so an additional 22 HP, making the total 36 HP recovered. Kind of impossible at the moment.

In the realm, if the fifth hero is always going to be effected by the Positive Energy Field, that will be another HP for every card that entered play, that's another 7 HP, so that's 22 HP total for that.

 

Edit: have actually came up with a slightly better one, instead of Omni-X, have Greatest Legacy. This will move the turn in question to Scholar's, where he'll just play the Proverbs and Axioms instead. Greatest Legacy will need Motivational Charge in play and Inspiring Presence to be the third card on top of his deck. For Greatest Legacy's two power uses from both Proverbs and Axioms, it will be to Gung-Ho the fifth target for 1 HP, then Motivational Charge for another 1 HP to the fifth target. Finally Don't Dismiss Anything will play the top card, which is Insiring Presence for another 1 HP. Bringing the total to 16, rather than just 15.

 

Edit2: Had forgotten, Argent Adept didn't use any powers from the second Proverbs and Axioms, so he could use Vocalize to activate Rhapsody of Vigor again, bringing the total to 17 now.

17

I always enjoy it when Runway does these.

18

You have Scholar Tempest and Adept, if you add in some reclaim/vernal/dde shenanigans you can get extra powers and healing, I don't know if that ups the total by much though.

Involving environment cards could really up the numbers as well.

19

Hmm… Actually, when Scholar plays Don't Dismiss Anything to play Argent Adept's Vernal Sonata, that would allow Scholar to put the second Proverbs and Axioms on top of his deck, because that would have completed by then. All the healing powers would be expended by that point, but it would give an additional 2 HP. So it would make the total 19 HP. If Reclaim From the Deep is put back ontop from Vernal Sonata, and then put into play before Scholar does so, Argent can get another Vernal Sonata back on top of his deck and Scholar can put the second Don't Dismiss Anything, which can then be put into play thanks to the first Don't Dissmiss Anything. However it will allow a second Vernal Sonata to be played, bringing the grand total to 20 HP.

20


You missed one for Nightmist. The most you could do is 27.

Play Heedless Lash 4 (if there is one; if not, 3), and if Master of Magic is in play you'll get that much HP back. Then -- assuming mist-fueled recovery is on top of the deck -- play that, dropping 2 cards to redirect the damage from Heedless Lash. then do a 20-card shuffle, and discard a 4 card for the starshield amulet. You could potentially regain 28 this way, but since you can't go below 1 without dying (fixed point shenanigans notwithstanding) and you can't regain above your max, you're hard limited to 26 for normal Nightmist and 27 for Dark Watch.