New Nemeses - Comments and Speculations (Vengeance Spoilers)

General GTG General Discussion
1

Okay, well with my finances where they are, I'm not certain whether I'll be able to buy Vengeance when it hits the shelves, so I gave in and read this spoiler.  So I don't know what the cards do and I haven't seen any of the other art, but I've got enough here to form opinions with.  Here are some thoughts I've begun to form.

  • Man-Grove is the most amazing name ever, closely followed by the Radio-Activist.

  • Choke looks really cool, from the little bit of her I can see in that rather small picture.

Equity is also a really cool concept, particularly going by his name - presumably he's a lot like Two-Face, only with a corporate background rather than a legal one.

  • Highbrow is a very obvious Leader homage, but that's a great name for one.

  • Citizen Slash may be "No Executions", and the Crackjaw Crew is almost certainly "The Whole Gang", plus Doc Tusser is obviously "Dead or Alive" as well as Terrible Tech-Strike and Eye on the Prize (although it seems likely my theory of him being an immortal alien is shot; more likely he mutated himself with drugs, perhaps acquired through a predecessor of Pike Industries).  This means we know who everyone in CR's deck is!  (Actually by now we probably know everyone in just about all of the pre-Vengeance decks.)

But with those quick comments aside, there now comes a rant.  Now, admittedly, I'm not seeing most of the picture here, so I may be way off base.  But it seems to me as though a lot of these nemesis-assignments are rather forced, having been done to force these characters into a "one nemesis per hero (including three yet-to-be-revealed heroes)" pattern, just for the sake of doing so.  I'm not going to worry about the things that we obviously have no way to guess at, like why Tantrum is Sky-Scraper's nemesis when we have so little information about either of them.  But these questions seem glaringly obvious to me:

  • Why is The Seer Fanatic's nemesis when we've only seen him fighting Nightmist?

  • Ruin makes some sense as Akash'Bhuta's nemesis, but very little as far as I can see for having a grudge against AA or vice versa, any more than he would against anyone else.  Why not pair him with Natch?

  • Equity is almost unquestionably one of the four figures who are seen on Rook City Wraith's incap side.  Two of those individuals are Wraith's nemeses, and the third remains unknown.  Why exactly is Equity not a Wraith nem?

  • Vyktor definitely should be Tempest's nem, but shouldn't he maybe also be Sky-Scraper's?

  • Is Calypso Ra's nemesis for any reason other than a lame "water beats fire" shtick?

  • Highbrow is a very obvious Leader homage.  Since the Leader is Hulk's nemesis, and Haka is the closest SOTM analogue to Hulk, shouldn't Highbrow maybe be another Haka nem?  (This one is not terribly convincing even to me; after all, Hulk's mini-nem is Hippo, who's obviously equatable to Rhino, who's opposed to Spider-Man…not sure if we really have a Spidey analogue in SOTM, probably Setback is closest…but if Hippo was Setback's nem then I'd be asking why he wasn't Haka's, for the same reason as my first point above.)

  • And to really get nitpicky about it, on one level I like that the Sentinels got a four-member team as their mini-nem, but at the same time, I'm looking at the Vengeance Five, the Ennead, and minion-based villain decks like La Capitan and Citizen Dawn, and going "why the blue blazes would four individuals be one target card?  Are they physically attached to each other?  If not, why are they not distinct individuals?"  I realize there's probably a good answer, and there doesn't even really need to be one; again, I'm semi-satisfied with the way this comes out, but I still think that it begs the question.

If there is information on Vengeance cards which helps to clear any of this puzzlement up, please feel free to share.

2

 

No executions I'm fairly certain is Citizen Truth/Dare. No beard and wrong hair style for Slash.

 

We most certainly do not know everyine in the pre-vengeance. See Sentinel Comics Wiki - Sentinels of the Multiverse

 

 

This pattern was broken with Iron Legacy a long time ago. Plus the Freedom Five have their own Nemesis and the Vengeful Five. These are just small time mini guys who aren't as good as full characters or only have small story archs. The Nemesis in this case is possibly that that bad guy was featured in said nemesis comic series rather than any sort of 'Nemesis' feeling of utter hatred/compitition.

 

See  Sentinel Comics Wiki - Sentinels of the Multiverse for more on lining up. The Mini Nemesis give a new nemesis to every single Hero currently released and 3 new ones (Possibly the two from WotC and a Mini Expansion or the next Expansion)

 

 

Because the storyline is already written. Probably involved in the comics of those heroes.

 

 

 

You'll notice he is standing with Ermine and Spite - two known nemesis of Wraith. The third is a figure that is likely seen on Setbacks 'High Risk Behavior' card - which means nothign to us yet … and Equity is inside Ermine's deck. So likely, in the Comics, Ermine's little crew includes Equity, and Ermines background is from Rook City, so that adds a link to Rook City Wraith - its very possible also that because it is /Rook City/ wraith, those are 4 villains from Rook City, But Equity deals more with The Naturalist rather than Wraith.

 

 

We have no information on Sky-Scraper yet. The /thought/ makes sense that she is the huge Thorathian seen in many pictures (given the growing style nemesis icon) but not gauranteed. Again, we also do not know the comic storyline developed by Christopher and Adam.

 
Because even though they are inspired by certain characters, they are not exactly those characters, nor is their comic series have any relation to the stories in Marvel/DC Comics. They may be based/inspired, but they have their own stories behind them.  
 
 
[quote="Envisioner"]
And to really get nitpicky about it, on one level I like that the Sentinels got a four-member team as their mini-nem, but at the same time, I'm looking at the Vengeance Five, the Ennead, and minion-based villain decks like La Capitan and Citizen Dawn, and going "why the blue blazes would four individuals be one target card?  Are they physically attached to each other?  If not, why are they not distinct individuals?"  I realize there's probably a good answer, and there doesn't even really need to be one; again, I'm semi-satisfied with the way this comes out, but I still think that it begs the question.
[/quote]
 
Because... who cares? Mechanics can change, cards have represented groups before (Blade Battalion) and as a gang they probably roam together often. Doesn't really seem like a big deal at all.
3

The seperate HP for teams usually mean that team has unique differences that contribute to the team, the crackjack crew could just be some really tough guys that fight like a mob, and therefore fall under mob HP like Omni's T-1000's and the Blade Battalions.

4

Oh And another thing

 

 

You're making a lot of assumptions based on story, but remember - the story we don't know it. Its all be written already and hasnt been changed since the start, confirmed by Adam this past weekend. They know where these guys are how they interact because they wrote it as they want to 

5

Maybe it's not Slash, I couldn't see his picture terribly well, but it's definitely not Truth or Dare (I believe both are different individuals, their "or" status is just a game effect as far as I know), if we're going by facial hare.  No Executions has massive sideburns.

We most certainly do not know everyine in the pre-vengeance.

Well, not "everyone", but an awful lot of former enigmas got cleared up all at once here.  I think it's at least half the characters that were previously on the Artwork Unknown Character Speculation thread.

This pattern was broken with Iron Legacy a long time ago.

I'm not counting him any more than I'm counting the Vengeance Five, nor do I consider Scholar's need for a nemesis satisfied by the Hermetic.  I will be disappointed if the game ends without every hero having exactly one "proper" Nemesis.  Even then, I'll be a little sad that the Freedom Five are as over-represented as they are (and Tempest and Unity a little bit so), because the other characters are cool too.  But I'm reconciled to the fact that the creators have chosen to focus on those five.  I just hope they don't distort the game too much more than that overall.  A person whose favorite hero is Visionary or Omnitron-X shouldn't feel like they're missing out on some of the game's awesomeness because they get so many fewer nemesis "pings" than someone who favored Wraith or Tachyon would.

These are just small time mini guys who aren't as good as full characters

"Yeah?  Well, your mom isn't as good as a full character!"

…By which I mean, I don't believe anyone deserves to be dismissed as an unimportant character.  Everyone is the hero of their own story; some of us may be more inherently interesting, but we all deserve to be shown some attention by a "creator" (no I'm not being religious, just metaphorical) that thinks we're worth lavishing some descriptive detail upon.

Mmm…good point.  It's still gonna bug me a little, especially if we never find out their names or anything, since they're clearly quite distinct individuals.  But the storytelling in SOTM is minimalist enough that I'm probably never going to be entirely satisfied; it after all only pretends to be based on a series of hundreds of comics, rather than those comics actually being available to read.

I hope that's true; all I'm saying is that, from my admittedly limited vantage point, I don't see it in several cases.

6

 

Consider the Mini nemeses give one to every hero already released, I don't think these are going to be the 'Only' nemesis at all for those heroes who have not yet had a 'main' nemesis. 

 

From the looks of it, everyone will have 2 nemesis - their 'Main' and a small one, and then the Freedom Five have the Vengeance Five and the Freedom Six have Iron Legacy to boot. I would not be surprised to see more 'Mini Nemesis' for farther released heroes down the line.

7

I would find it very strange and disappointing if every hero didn't get one single-nemesis villain deck counterpart.  I don't care so much about an equalized distribution, but everybody needs at least a little nemesis lovin' all to themselves.

8

Envisioner wrote:

I'm not counting him any more than I'm counting the Vengeance Five, nor do I consider Scholar's need for a nemesis satisfied by the Hermetic.  I will be disappointed if the game ends without every hero having exactly one "proper" Nemesis.  Even then, I'll be a little sad that the Freedom Five are as over-represented as they are (and Tempest and Unity a little bit so), because the other characters are cool too.  But I'm reconciled to the fact that the creators have chosen to focus on those five.  I just hope they don't distort the game too much more than that overall.  A person whose favorite hero is Visionary or Omnitron-X shouldn't feel like they're missing out on some of the game's awesomeness because they get so many fewer nemesis "pings" than someone who favored Wraith or Tachyon would.

 

 

 

The great thing about this game is that even though the story may seem to focus on the Freedom Five, that doesn't mean you as a player need to focus on them.  If comic book history has shown us anything, it is that every character can have a large or small role.  I feel that with these new mini-nemesis decks, GTG has given us as fans and gamers the ability to mix it up a bit.  While there is definitely a "storyline," every game you play is your own story.  

For a while on BGG, I decided to try and chronicle my games in a "story mode" to create a timeline, but it is my timeline and my multiverse.  Look at what others are doing creating their own custom heroes and villains as well.  They may not be "cannon," but again GTG has given us a great template to go beyond what they had planned and I for one applaud them for that.  I personally love the Freedom Five and introduce most people using those characters, but I have played with every character released and have had some great fights.  In the end, nemesis don't really make a big difference to me except for extra damage to the team or to the villain, they are just there for flavor.

 

9

If I was in any doubt as to the completeness and complexity of the storylines in the Multiverse, my meeting with Christopher confirmed to me that there's a full, rich, intertwined set of plots going on there which we haven't seen half of yet.

I don't believe that any of the connections are shoehorned in - there are good reasons for everything but we just don't know them right now. But we will by the end of this arc. 

Actually, I think we know more than we realise, we just haven't made the appropriate leaps yet. Christopher told me that we're asking the wrong questions. 

10

"No Executions" - isn't this guy Baron Blade? Scar and all. Makes sense thematically or by analgoy: Lex Luthor / Doc Doom helped when bigger threats appeared (and turn on the heroes ASAP).

Also Fright Train could be added to Bunker's list for Flak Cannon

 

edit: Also, isn't Ambuscade on Expat's Tactical Shotgun?

pretty sure Embolden shows Legacy and Visionary confirmed somewhere.

edit2: Demoralization is the guy from the Dreamer's deck, the Toy Master.

11

The symbol on "No Executions" is the logo for the Citizens of the Sun. Meaning that the person depicted is most likely a Citizen of the Sun.

12

No certainty on Tactical Shotgun - could be, but Ambuscade has never had green glowing eyes before. My vote is on a battalion but ... they never have had guns. So no idea. Changed it a little

 

Embolden are not very confirmed sillhouettes - so they could be Legacy and Visionary but without a link to a post by Adam/Christopher or from someone saying they asked them, only a possiblity.

 

Good call on Demoralization

13

Someone hasn't played enough games in the MDP then.

14

The only one in the MDP with a gun is the 'gunner' and the flavor text make it clear only a few were given /beam/ cannons - not assault rifles like that pic.

15

Silverleaf, could you give a little more context? What -- EXACTLY -- did you ask about that prompted the "wrong questions" comment?

16

Whoever's updating the wiki, the guy on Dark Watch ExPat's incap fighting against the Argent Adept is Revenant. Looking at the back of the Vengeance box, he is using the same red energy, and seeing as they are likely inside REVOCorp, it would make sense for him to be there. Plus he fits the sillouette, and can fly, as seen on his card.

 

Also, the guy on Feral Fury is a Blade Battalion Mechanic from the MDP, the grey thing on Reveal the Flaws is NOT the same as the thing in Mists of Time, Unique Capabilites is SET, not Anubis, the orange melty guy from High-Risk Behavior is definitely NOT the Radio-Activist (they don't look at all alike, except they're orange) -- compare between Volatile Parts and Powered Shock Wave; Powered Shock Wave is Radioactivist, Volatile parts is ABSOLUTELY NOT.

17

Like inside the Physical building? To me it looks like they are on a roof.

18

And, once again, SIDEBURNS.  Am I the only one who sees them?

19

That doesn’t look inside, it looks outside. It looks like they’re at the mobile defense platforms.

20

It wasn't really in response to anything specific. He was basically saying that if we asked the right questions, he'd give us the answers/confirm stuff, but that we're not asking the right things so he's not telling us. Unless I'm remembering that incorrectly, which is absolutely possible.

The implication of course is that there's something we're missing.