Something to keep in mind: Greater Than Games doesn't really intend for folks to play OblivAeon that often! :-) It's meant to be a special situation kind of game.
I do share the concerns with the game play time, though. That discussion came up frequently in playtesting. There was just a difference of opinion around how long games were actually going to take an average player... :-(
(And we always played Talisman as co-op, so it wasn't usually as long of a game. ;-)
I definitely don't intend to do OblivAeon games often, except to get the rules down for when I do run them. At this point, there's nothing new I can learn from re-reading the character booklet or the OblivAeon rulebook.
(It's nice that Talisman has some built in co-op endings, with the caveat that they have to be revealed endings)
I don't think 'you aren't meant to play it that often' is a valid argument for any game. Imagine a cake that's very dry, and difficult to eat. "Well, you aren't supposed to eat it that often." Why should I eat it at all?
It really seems like someone closely involved with Oblivaeon's design, refused to compromise on several key issues. There are too many things going on, with way too much book keeping, which make the game way too long, especially considering that there's always around a 15-30% chance that the game will be inherently unwinnable. That's perfectly acceptable in a 30-40 minute game, but extremely frustrating in a 3-4 hour one.
I still enjoy the game (using some house rules), and all the new characters, but considering they effectively took an extra year to complete Oblivaeon, I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected a more 'playable' game than the one we got.
As I mentioned earlier on the system for OblivAeon was on Christopher. He made this game the way he imagined it to feel epic and has said at various times he doesn’t expect this to be regular play. To go with a food analogy as you did this is a case of ordering the most expensive item on the menu. You might enjoy it thoroughly but it’s not something you can afford to do regularly.
I watched Supernatural for 11 seasons for reasons I won't mention, also I've seen Dragonball Z. There are so many times you can do "save the universe/multiverse" or make the big bad even bigger and badder before it seems stale. DBZ could have easily ended satisfactorily after Freiza or Cell. Supernatural could have reasonably ended after Season 5, or pretty much any season after that.
There comes a point where it's no longer fandom, but addiction, in my opinion. If every Marvel movie were Infinity War people would get sick of it rather quickly.
OK … that got me curious. I really wonder what nefarious unspeakable twisted reasons you had to watch Supernatural …
Are some of the reasons illegal ?
No, don’t answer that, because if it is the case, it will just turn my brain upside down even more.
Something to do with the Illuminati ? No, don’t answer that too !
Seeking a connection in a doomed relationship.
While I agree that the game has a ton of bookkeeping and is very long, I don’t think this is true. In fact, my group rarely loses to OblivAeon anymore, having played against him ~20 times. OblivAeon is really fun for my group, but we also love games like Twilight Imperium.
The one thing I really wish Christopher had done was to include an official “normal mode” or “short mode” and an “epic mode” of the game, where the currently published version was the epic mode. I feel like people would have really enjoyed a shorter version.
As a digital only player of Sentinels, I’m not really concerned about OblivAeon- part of what I quite like about the digital version is how it handles all the ad-min for me as we go. Sometimes that isn’t too onerous, but it can be easy to forget when something in play will trigger, and the app handling that for me means I can concentrate on what I’m intending to do.
The 15-30% was based on my experiences, but you may very well be correct, we might just not be playing optimally. The biggest swing factor between winning and losing against Oblivaeon seems to be if redacted shows up, and when he shows up. If he shows up near the end, and you’re not prepared, you’re pretty much doomed.
An official mini-mode would have indeed helped. Simply skipping his first form is one way of doing so, and goes a long way towards cutting down game time.
I checked my Scythe and Gaia Project boxes. Both quote times that are actually what it takes you to play them (about 1-2.5 hours)
as much as I admire Christopher for his beloved work on normal Sotm (which I really care about), I think a designer deliberately designing a game which is not meant to be played often is making an inherently flawed decision. board games are meant to be played. especially when it's the final expansion of a game that is very playable. while good expansions always change and improve the gameplay in some way, in my opinion they should not change it so drastically as to reach twice the play time and thrice the fiddliness of the base game.
some people might want to mention artistic/design freedom and you do have a point, I don't dispute, but I think Oblivaeon being an expansion does put legitimate constraints on an artist/designer to not veer excessively away from the gameplay of the base game. I would not buy Oblivaeon as a stand alone. I bought it only as an expansion, and I found it disappointing.
it's a bit like kickstarting an expansion of the base game of Sotm, and instead of getting Shattered Timelines or Vengeance, you get Twilight Imperium. I've never played Twilight Imperium and I actually would be happy to try it, but I wouldn't call it an expansion of Sotm. I know I'm exaggerating for dramatic effect ^^ but this is what it feels to me. and actually, I have no desire to play Oblivaeon at all.
I'm not entirely disappointed because at least I got some new environments and heroes, which I will try at some point.
OblivAeon isn’t meant to be bought as a stand-alone only the core set is. OblivAeon is an expansion and various games take expansions on lots of different ways. In this case it gives a different game mode. You may not like the OblivAeon format for what it is but it accomplishes what Christopher wanted. He wanted an epic feeling game that would only be played occasionally. Which to me fits the idea of an expansion which is that it adds gameplay through various items not all of them will necessarily be used every time. There are certainly ways I’m sure it can be improved but from what I’ve played I enjoy it.
I tried to pm you but looks like you deactivated your pm. I get that oblivaeon is not your cup of tea and that it can be frustrating but to be fair there are some very well made fan expantions that brought some awesome classic mode villains and loads of other stuff. I encourage you to explore those instead of dwelling on an expansion that clearly didn’t deliver what you like about the game.
“It’s the end of the world.” --Giles
“Again?” --everyone else in the scene
(Buffy the vampire slayer)
10 years ago a board game came out called Android (not Netrunner: Android, that came out later). It's story was incredibly deep, and the art design was amazing. The components were also amazing, and I remember being so excited to finally play.
It wasn't very playable. It took 3.5 - 4 hours to play, and despite there being a lot of elements and events going on, players didn't seem to have many actions, causing there to be a very large amount of dead time between turns.
There are plenty of fantastic games that take 3-4 hours to play, but in those games a lot is happening at all times. In Android it felt more like 'take your turn, and then put on headphones and watch an episode of Parks and Rec on your phone', and Oblivaeon feels the same way to me. Both were created with its art design and story foremost in mind, with playability as a secondary concern, and it shows.
All that said, once again, I am NOT disappointed with Oblivaeon, because it introduced (both in the game and as add on elements) 11 great new characters and 5 new locations! I'm highly satisfied. I'm just not sure if my group will be facing Oblivaeon again, any time soon.
Just finished my third game of Oblivaeon last night after getting it last Friday. The first was a solo play that I quit halfway through, the second was with a friend until he had to go, then I finished up myself with a win, and the third was a solo play. Definitely still screwing some things up, but growing significantly in my ability to manage the entire battlefield and comfort level tracking everything.
A thought occurred to me after [Redacted] took my hero team out last night, though. If you want to shorten the game significantly, keep everything else in place, just dont' include Oblivaeon himself. Play [Redacted] as Oblivaeon instead. You may or may not have to skip the Shield Card as part of that, though, or change the rule about not replacing KOed Heroes, or it might be too difficult.
First game of OblivAeon I played, we played a 5 player game. The VoidGuard+Lifeline, and our starting environments were Nexus of the Void and Champion Studios.
It took 2 hours and we won without losing a single hero and only losing 1 environment. (Point of pride for me, as I was playing Dr. Medico)
At no point did it feel like there was an impossible number of things to keep track of, as we all had our own little baliwick. I had the Oblivaeon booklet and one of the environments.
*Shrugs* I absolutely see how it's not an expansion mode meant to be played all the time, and I also remember when vengeance came out how many people were annoyed and upset with how confusing and bookkeeping-intensive it was. It'll pass. The game is not confusing, just new. As you learn cards and learn effects, it will be less of a "oh spronk, a new card came out check everything" and more of a "oh cool, this Scion came out, they do this and this. Gotta watch out for that" and the amount of brain power needed to process new info won't be as intense, and it won't feel so complicated.
We'll get there.
Good point.
I managed to get a convention game of OblivAeon done in just over four hours, though I had asked for a six hour slot. That time included a lunch break, and zero hero character card casualties. I was also playing Curse of the Black Spot La Commadora, and neglected that OblivAeon was my nemesis, which mostly didn't matter as he wasn't usually doing damage to me.
We did lose three environments: Freedom Tower, Ruins of Atlantis, and Nexus of the Void, leaving us with Maerynian Refuge and Mordengrad. It looked like we were going to lose, but the rest of the team was America's Newsest Legacy/Beacon, base Fanatic, and base Unity, all acting before me. Legacy's plays, powers, and rewards took down a good chunk of OblivAeon's final form's HP, and his play after Beacon's turn left him with two cards in his deck. Then Fanatic overkilled him with Wrathful Retribution.
Other contributing factors included a shield that was easy to break, and the fact that the environments mostly worked for us.