In conventional SotM, the H mechanic allows villains to scale to the number of heroes opposing them. Vengeance offers a cool new mode of play where the number of villains scale to the number of players instead of the potency of the villain cards. As such, all the Vengeance villain decks and character cards lack the H mechanic. Is there a good way to convert the Vengeance villains to adopt the H mechanic so you can play them like a conventional, stand-alone villain?
Example: at the end of his turn, the Fright Train character card says he does 3 damage to the hero with the highest hp. Converting that to H-1 seems like it'd do the trick, because the default H assumption is 4 (with a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 5). However, Proletariat (and his clones) does 2 damage, which would convert to H-2 which would be zero damage in a 2 player game. Clearly this isn't as simple as replacing all damage values with H + (OriginalValue - 4).
Failing that, is there a number of players the Vengeance villains would be effective against (e.g. you can play against Proletariat as is provided you play against him with no more than 2 heroes... any more than that and he becomes too easy)?
Well, seeing as the idea of Vengeance is that you play against H of them, this mean that H villain cards get played each turn. Thus, while you would still need to do something to their hp (multiplying by H might be too much, but scale it some), you could fairly easily make them scaling by playing them like a full Vengeance team. Just let the specific villain play a card between each hero's turn, and it would be similar to playing against the V5, but just with one.
Edit: To be clear, you don't need to adjust their damage to scale with H, as they'll be playing H cards each full turn.
That's... actually a pretty elegant solution. I agree they'd need an HP boost (<= startingHP * H) and a couple of cards would need to be handled differently (like certain Friction cards causing other villain decks to play cards... I guess you could just have her play H-1 additional cards in that case), but that's all pretty manageable.
Keep in mind that Friction (in particular) would be MUCH more powerful in this format, because Surges would build up in the trash far quicker, and Proletariat as well probably, because clones, clones, clones. This is why I mentioned that HP*H might be too high.
They should have set the villans up to were you could play them bouth ways. There is also no filp abilty. I just wish I could also play the villans the regular way also. I do not think the new villans can take on 4 to 5 heros in regular mode they would just get beat down.
I usely only play this game with my one friend and it hard enught to keep track of everything as it is. With eleven diffferent deck to keep trak of for the vengeance style of play it is going to be even harder. I look forwored to playing the game this way. I just wish I could also play the villans the regular way also. With that being sead are they going to come up with more villans for the vengeance style of play and villans for the regualer way to play the game also. If thats the case than thats cool because than you have two diffirent way to play so your not looked in to one style of play.
Actually H is never supposed to be lower than 3. Two hero games are home made idea and not part of the base game. Generally I belive the idea is that for any H-X always use a minimum value of 1.
Yeah, it's a 2-5 player game but it's a 3-5 hero game; if you're playing with 2 players, you'll want to play 2 heroes each (or something like that). Having said that, as Sefirit mentinoed, there are home-brewed rules for 2-player games, but that's not the way it's supposed to be played.
While my main playtester buddy and I have never had problems playing 2 heroes each, I have to admit, with V5, it does get a bit crowded and harder to manage for just 2 people. Not impossible by any means, but trickier.
Yeah, the 2 <= H bit was a slipup on my part because I often play the game with two players... each controlling two heroes. I recognize that it should be a 3 to 5 range. Oops.
When you have your own game company you can do it your way. Until then… 'they should have' is pretty rude to say. Far better to parse yourself with 'I would have liked to see this' - they /should/ do nothing for you, the fact that they provide an amazing game that we all enjoy playing many many times over deserves an iota of respect for their design process and their design decisions.
Yeah the V5 are much more complex than the other villain encounters in the game. But thats the point right?
Thats the one thing I dont understand about all the threads and comments about the V5 not being newbie freindly or too hard to keep track of. Thats why its an expansion. Thats why we keep saying its not a "stand alone" in the traditional sense. Its like putting a calculous problem in front of a 13 year old and saying "you know how to multiply and divide, so this should be easy for you"
Speaking as the OP, I'd like to say that the intent behind this thread is not to be critical of Vengeance, but to make it easier to play it even more. The expansion is a fine one and my gaming group has really enjoyed it. However, I know that folks are going to want to mix and match the formats if they can ("Let's play with Ambuscade in the V5. It'd be fun and he shows up on so many of new the cards" or "Proletariat is awesome. We need to find a way to fight him as a stand-alone villian some time"), so I came to ask the forum how best to do that. If doing so is an unofficial variant, so be it, but the request is by an avid fan seeking to find MORE ways to play a great game, and the request is being made to other avid fans (I also have a BGG thread asking about this), not the developers of the game.
The fact that others want the same thing as me is great; more interest to drive the discussion. The tone others use in conveying that, however, is their own business and separate from the matter at hand: enhancing Vengeance's replayability. So moving on, someone over on BGG pointed out that the V5 villains have 20 card decks instead of the standard 25. Using broccoli's suggestion does mean you'll see the same cards way more often than you would normally because 1) the villain deck is being played H-times per round and 2) the villain deck has fewer cards to go through before it shuffles. That's not inherently bad, but it is something to be aware of.
Does anyone have an idea on how much to scale the villain's health by? Maybe hp * (1 + (H - 1)/2)... so you increase it by 100% if up against 3 heroes, 150% against 4 heroes, and 200% if up against 5 heroes.
So I suppose you never second-guessed George Lucas's decisions about what should happen in the Star Wars prequels? Everyone in America (and most if not all other countries) has an absolute, inherent right to be part of the peanut gallery and to say any damn thing they want about the creative efforts of others. They may not be in a position to be able to do better, but this in no way un-entitles them from their opinion.
Just because you have right to say what you want doesn't mean someone is not being rude when they imply that they know better than the team that spent hundreds of hours designing and playtesting the game.
Its not about what I feel. its about how I say it.
/Should/ implies you are better than them and you know better. there are terms for this. Armchair quarterback. Backseat driver. And others.
You have every right to your opinion, but there is an amount of common politeness and manners fall upon one to use when dealing with peoples work that they poured blood, sweat, and tears into. Telling them they did a labor of love wrong is not only rude, but downright brutal.
I do not like the Prequals. I never have said that George Lucas /should/ have done it a certain way. I was not on set. I never have made a movie. I have never acted in a movie. I have never written one. I have never been to hollywood or dealt with the people that make movies. I have never been involved in movie making. I can express an opinion of dislike all I want, but i have no right to tell him how he /should/ have done it.
Shater - I have no issue with people looking to make house rules or custom rules, or variants of any type. By all means - explore those, they will only bring more awesomeness to this game.
I do however have an issue with people who affect an air of arrogance that they know better than others simply because they 'are' without any sort of experience with the actual product or process. Envisioner was not involved in the development of this expansion, he is entitled to his opinion as to what he would have liked to have seen, but not to a position that anyone /should/ have done anything differently.
I disagree with you Evisioner that everyone is entitled to their opinion. that sense of entitlement is a very inherant problem with society. People are not /entitled/ to anything. They must work hard for what they want, and opinions are worth next to nothing without hard work to back them up
