So after playing the new heroes (Unity, Nightmist, Argent Adept) a few times, I LOVE them. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it isn’t only that their decks are so amazingly constructed (which they are). Instead, it seems to me that these three are just more powerful than the others. I’m not sure if this is a complaint exactly because, as I say, I love these guys, but I am curious whether other people have the same reaction. I am also curious whether GTG set out to make them so, if GTG wants to share. Given some adjustments to other characters (The Wraith especially) I have been surprised to continue to have this sense.
Anyway, discuss! Or, I suppose, don’t if you don’t want to.
Heh, while I agree AA is pretty powerful - and you should have seen him during playtesting when he could pull off far more powerful stuff - I don't think that these three are as powerful as some of the original heroes. Legacy is still exceptionally powerful, more in making everyone else do well than anything else. Wraith still has some capabilities that just amaze me. The one-off damage capabilities of Tachyon, Bunker, and Haka are amazing. And Tempest… Well, I pretty much don't play Tempest very often, primarily because he can single-handed deal with nearly anything that comes up, which I don't find as interesting/challenging.
I think each character does what it does very well. AA is versatile and can deal with almost any situation, but he's not going to deal with those situations as well as someone who's actually focused on that area. He'll deal a little damage, or he'll give a couple folks bonuses, but he doesn't do a bunch of damage and he can't give everyone boosts. Nightmist is good for random damage and regaining lots of HP. Unity does a great deal of damage, but she personally does very little - her bots do all the heavy lifting, which makes her dependent upon getting them out and keeping them around.
The "noobs" remind me of Absolute Zero in that they are high risk, high reward characters. Now Absolute Zero is the King of this since he requires both a time and hp investment. Nightmist requires that you invest a lot of HP and Argent Adept requires a lot of time (to build combos) so they are not as frustrating or sublime as Zero.
Unity felt a little too consistent for me, but I guess she lacks problem solving for the most part.
Unity has out of turn environment/ongoing destruction that can be used to take out either a Hostage Situation or Paparazzi, and quasi-unlimited damage redirection. That's pretty serious problem solving in my book.
Interesting. I have the opposite feeling, though perhaps we're using consistent differently. I suppose Unity is consistent in that in a reasonably consistent amount of time, if not facing much interference, she will get out an army of bots and become mega-powerful.
From game to game, though, I get the sense that she vacilates wildly between not very effective and super effective, while many of the other heroes have far less variation in effectiveness.
Agreed. I think her level of effectiveness depends upon the potential aoe damage the villain causes and how many minions/environment creatures that hit the lowest HP hero targets. I had one hell of a time fighting in Atlantis with Unity.
Yeah, as I've said before, Unity is not a good idea when playing against someone like Plague Rat, or any villain/environment that does AOE damage. I'd also say it's not a good idea to play Unity and Nightmist, since one of Nightmist's biggest attacks is "Oblivion", and that damages all targets. We played a game last night, me as Nightmist, and my friend insisted I not use "Oblivion" since that would harm his bots. But since "Oblivion" is a great attack from NM, I couldn't do much.
Really, NM, AA, and AZ all fall into the category of "either awesome or terrible". Based on that, any future hero that has a level 3 complexity will probably be like this.
You can do a lot with Nightmist without unleashing an oblivion. I've found her damage output, while fun, not her biggest boon to the team. (Also, I'll take Heedlash Lash any day of the week.)
Not to mention future 4 complexity heroes, who require arranging latin phrases, and level 5 complexity heroes, who need to have cards interact to form diferential equations that deal damage.
I had a great game the other night against Cosmitron. I used the relatively damage-light team of Argent Adept, Visionary, Nightmist, and Tempest. Atlantis played Atlantean Font of Power early, and some early uses of Prophetic Vision meant I didn't have to worry about the Leaking Rooms or the Pillars of Hercules.
Working together through a complex web of Mistbound, Suggestion, Into the Stratosphere, Reclaim from the Deep, and Vernal Sonata, the team ensured that Omnitron played a Component every turn, which was promptly Sarabanded by the Argent Adept. AA never even got an instrument out, actually, but made a ton of extra plays through Silver Shadow/Inventive Preparation.
Tempest was all defense early, so Nightmist lead the damage race with the Amulet, generally using Omnitron's attacks against himself. She Oblivioned once, thanks to the Atlantean Font of Power, but didn't need any of them. The frequent use of Reclaim from the Deep and Vernal Sonata meant she knew what was on top of her deck - usually, a 4. Employing Enlightenment and Heedless Lash like baseball bats, she was a force to behold. Visionary had no problem standing back and focusing her power into Nightmist.
I'm really not sure. Because with RC, it seemed as if Fixer and Expatriette were on par with and maybe even a bit weaker than the rest of the base game heroes.. IR does have some super power characters.
AA first... I think AA is fine. He does CRAZY stuff.. but its not unusual for him to go an entire game without him dealing a single point of damage to the villain or villain targets. His "attack" is to make other characters better. I love this. He's like Legacy taken to an extreme. Legacy still has plenty of damage but mainly buffs his team, AA basically only buffs his team. All in all, Legacy is probably stronger IMO, but AA can be super helpful. Hs abilities have to be powerful to compensate for the fact that he is doing no damage. And yes, I know about Scherzo of Frost and Flame but honestly, barring some crazy stuff like, Legacy+ AA+ Ra team with Inspirational Presence, Galvanize, and Imbue Fire, Scherzo isn't really something you want to be doing... like not ever.
Now Nightmist: She's pretty good, but I dont think she's stronger than most of the base game heroes. She's complex, she can heal herself a lot, but she has a big setup time. If you get her setup down she reaps huge rewards, kinda like Zero. She's not nearly as bad as Zero without any stuff, but she's still only mediocre until you get a few relics down and hopefully have your MoM.
Unity:... Uh.. unity I'll give you. Unity is OP as all get out. But I don't think that she makes a trend, just a single really powerful hero.
I'll grant everyone that Unity CAN be very powerful. She can also get easily wiped by a few AEs. Try playing her against The Ennead, or even Akash'bhuta in a group of 4 or 5(where the Rockslides do 2 or 3 to all), and you'll see that she has her niche, but she can easily be taken out of it. Heck, we even played a game against Voss, where he opened with the frosthound and the psychic worm which made her useless at first and wiped her each time Forced Deployment brought them back.
I'm not saying she isn't good; I'm just saying she's both really powerful AND fairly fragile.
And I kind of dont blame them for Unity being powerful... it is like "here is this really cool idea we want to do, but having a summoner hero is gonna be hard to balance". She is balanced enough to fit into the game which is what matters, but yeah, probably a step above other players. That said I can see how a Villain who nukes a lot would shut her down.
well, technically he can deal 21 damage in one turn unaided/unimpeded. OK, sure, you need 5 out of six instruments, a one shot and 5 ongoings (of which you'll burn 2), but it's possible! Still, he can deal quite some damage if you let yourself be a bit selfish at the start, and I think it's a valid AA strategy in certain situations. With a relatively light set-up (for AA's standards), you can get 10 damage out of one one-shot/sacrificed ongoing.
Though yeah, he really shines in support, and the nice thing about support characters is that no-one minds if they're really good at what they do
