Atlantean Throne Room is in play (all damage taken is reduced by 1) and NightMist is targeted with 3 damage. When she uses her Amulet of the Elder Gods to redirect it, is the resulting damage 1 (damage taken reduced when it would hit NM and again when it would hit the villain) or 2 (only reduced when it would hit the villain)? (And I guess it would be the same question if there were a global damage taken increase?)
Sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere.
Thanks
player choice as to which effect happens first (reduction in damage or redirection).
You only apply modifiers to the final target of damage, regardless of how much redirection occurs.
Example one: Ra plays Inferno to fry all of the Ennead members. There are only five in play, so Ra directs the sixth one-damage hit of Inferno to Mr. Fixer, who redirects it with Driving Mantis to hit one of the Enneads. That Ennead member takes 2 damage, not 1, from the redirected Inferno hit, due to the nemesis rule. If Fixer had simply taken the damage rather than using Mantis, he would just lose 1 HP (and call Ra a jerk).
Example two: Nightmist has the Amulet of the Elder Gods in play. When she redirects the villain's own damage back at himself, it is not increased by the Amulet; only damage she actually deals goes up.
Example three: Argent Adept performs Syncopated Onslaught and Counterpoint Bulwark, both on Tachyon. Tachyon plays a Sonic Vortex, dealing 3 + 1 damage to various targets. She selects herself as one of the targets, so the damage is reduced by 1 due to Bulwark. That still leaves 3, so she can Synaptic Interruption that damage against some other target...and now that it's not hitting Tachyon anymore, Counterpoint no longer reduces it, so that target takes 4 damage from the redirected hit.
Long answer: what Envisioner said.
Short answer: damage is only dealt once regardless of how many times it's redirected. Therefore, damage modifiers only apply once, and they only apply to the final target. So 2 damage would be dealt.
Redirection is not new damage, it is just finding a different target, so any modifiers that would apply only do so once.
Let's say Adept puts a -1 damage taken on Nightmist. Mightmist would take 5 damage, reduced to 4 (thatnks Adept!) she decided to redirect it.
That -1 only applies to damage dealt to Nightmist, so once she redirects it it is 5 damage again.
Same With Tachyon and Shielding Winds, say Tachyon has synaptic interruption in play and Tempest has Shielding Winds, Tachyon is going to be dealt 5 damage, and shielding winds would reduce it to 3. Tachyon decides to use Synaptic to redirectthe damage back to the villain, the villain would take 5 damage, because shielding winds only applies to damage dealt to heroes.
Response damage, Wraith's Combat Stance, Ra's Flame Barrier, Omnitron-X's reactive and AZ's Isothermic are seperate instances of damage.
First they take damage, then they deal a new instance of damage. Those new instances get all the applicable modifications.
There is exactly 1 exception to that rule, and that is Writhe's Caliginous Form. It says "the first time Writhe would be dealt damage each turn, reduce that damage by 2 and redirect it to the villain target with the highest HP." Normally the damage reduction would be dependant on the final target, but that PARTICULAR card permanently reduces it by 2, so it could be re-redirected and it would still be at -2.
There is another actually. Smoke Bombs.
But all the other riders will still be between the source and the target. Other than the redirection rider, nothing of Wraith or Writhe's modifiers will affect the damage.
Also, even if you redirect the damage an infinite number of times (using smoke bombs and Legacy's lead from the front, for example), the modifier is only applied once.
I didn't include that because the way it's worded makes it clear that it's a permanent decrease: damage redirected this way is reduced by 1. Writhe's is a little bit more ambiguous.
What infinite? A source can only redirect once per instance of damage.
Is that how it works? I was under the impression that you could redirect infinitely, it just wouldn't do anything.
So you didn't include it in your "exactly 1 exception to that rule", because it is worded more clearly? Am I missing something? That sounds like more than "exactly 1 exception" to me. Lets see, Caliginous Form is 1 exception. Smoke Bombs is 1 exception. 1+1=2, hmm… I am have quite a difficult time figuring out how there is "exactly 1 exception".
That's how it works.
the rule being that any reductions that apply before the redirection are ignored if the damage is moved to a different target, yes; Smoke bombs is not an exception to that rule. It applies the reduction after the redirection. Caliginous Form does not. Therefore, Caliginous Form is the only exception.
Also, if you could... maybe not be a dick? that'd be nice.
I don't think that's correct. The "redirect only once" rule was commonly accepted in the forums at one point to deal with Smoke Bombs, but never had any actual basis in rulings. jsz2 is correct, and you can redirect infinitely often, it just doesn't do anything. (In particular, it only gets reduced once.)
Yes. The officialness states that you can infinitely redirect.
The reduction is applied once redirection occurs, but if the same card redirects 87,000 times it still is reduced by 1. The damage is reduced if it is redirected, not when, so if you redirect it a second time it still meets the criteria of being redirected, and thus keeps the same old -1.
You really like to pick on people who make absolutist statements that might not be exactly accurate, don't you? It's always in this exact tone of "voice" too…
EDIT - I wasn't about to get any more personal than that, but since McBehrer kinda did, well, I took the statement similarly. And I was considering posting before that this Caliginous Form card might be clearer if it said "redirect the damage and reduce it by 2".
I actually suggested that during playtesting, guess there is a reason why it's currently worded the way it is.
Edit: I'll go ahead and answer your other question, I don't pick on people who make absoluts, I point out their errors so that way they can better themselves from it. Will they make the same statement now that I had let them know? I would hope not. I can easily say that Smoke Bombs redirected to Mr. Fixer with Driving Mantis could redirect damage, thus the reduction from Smoke Bombs would carry on even after a second redirection (meaning reduction before redirection), I did not do that. Why? As he was getting upset by my post, and I am not here to make people upset. So I let him win this time around.
Who else is going to tell me I'm wrong in a convincing way? I like Ronway the way he is.
Good old Ronway, always there for you when you need to be told just how wrong you are.