Is it really a big deal if someone picks out their perfect starting hand rather than getting random cards?
No, it's not a big deal (IMO) if someone wants to waste their time cheating in a solitaire game. I couldn't count the number of times I've moved cards around in regular solitaire games to let myself win, and I don't see why anyone would care if someone did it with a solo game of SotM.
What if it's in a multiplayer game you're in?
I've never seen a solitaire app that allows that. I wonder why?
Heh, solitaire can be played with physical cards as well as apps.
What if it's in a multiplayer game you're in?
So you're worried about one guy surreptitiously hitting the rewind button to game the system while he's got the tablet in a pass-and-play game and then not telling anyone that he's cheated? I'd say that's super lame of that guy, but it's still a co-op game so it's not like he's come out ahead in any way. Plus, when I found out what the guy had done, I wouldn't let him play with my iPad anymore.
The rewind button is obviously at odds with faithful execution of the rules, but I'm comfortable opting for convenience over rigid adherence to the rules because the consequences of accidentally being forced to carry out an action you didn't mean to initiate seems more irritating than the possibility that someone will win a solo or co-op game that they otherwise would have lost. But of course, it's just my opinion.
Sure. The point I'm making is that just because you can physically do something in a cardboard game, doesn't mean that the app should allow you to do the same if it's against the rules. Quite the opposite.
What if it's in a multiplayer game you're in?So you're worried about one guy surreptitiously hitting the rewind button to game the system while he's got the tablet in a pass-and-play game and then not telling anyone that he's cheated? I'd say that's super lame of that guy, but it's still a co-op game so it's not like he's come out ahead in any way. Plus, when I found out what the guy had done, I wouldn't let him play with my iPad anymore.The rewind button is obviously at odds with faithful execution of the rules, but I'm comfortable opting for convenience over rigid adherence to the rules because the consequences of accidentally being forced to carry out an action you didn't mean to initiate seems more irritating than the possibility that someone will win a solo or co-op game that they otherwise would have lost. But of course, it's just my opinion.
I like the rewind, I said that. I've made my share of mistakes - recently using a huge Hypersonic Assault on Dawn when I'd gotten distacted and forgotten that she'd flipped (and the "choose" a target screen didn't warn me that she was immune). I took that card play back as soon as its effect resolved - after all, in a physical game or on G+ someone would have reminded me pretty damned quick as soon as I announced my play. And today I put Wrest the Mind on an Electropulse Explosive with 5HP rather than the one with 15HP, because I just clicked too fast without thinking. Realised my mistake straight away, fixed it. Absolutely the rewind should be there. Rewind/undo is awesome, and all boardgame apps should have it where it's appropriate (far too many do not).
I'm arguing that you shouldn't be able to rewind once you know what the environment and/or villain play is. No takebacks once new information is revealed. I don't know a single other boardgame app, competitive or co-operative, which allows you to do this.
That hypothetical guy in the pass-and-play (or later multiplayer) would have ruined my game and wasted my time. He's come out ahead of me. shrug
It is the only thing that has to do with it. The very reason it doesn't matter (in our opinion) is because it's solo/co-operative.
In online play the undo button will not work the same way; it can't, or everyone's game state would get disconnected. It may have to either be not allowed, or something that everyone agrees on. We'll figure that out when the time comes, I'm not worried about that.
The undo button is a convenience in a solo/co-op game, and that's all. You are free to not use it if it bothers you. We can provide an option to disable it if you can't trust your friends in pass & play.
Saying you shouldn't be able to rewind once you've revealed hidden information would make the undo button hardly usable for much of the game. Suppose you accidentally use a power that fizzles. Then you immediately draw a card. If we changed it to what you suggest, you would not be able to undo, because you've revealed hidden information. That's just one example, there are many more in this complex game. We prefer to allow the player to have the ability to rewind without restrictions that would make the feature useless much of the time.
We disagree here then. Rules are rules are rules, as far as I'm concerned. Can you explain why this rule "doesn't matter", but Fanatic Final Diving a 5HP minion does? I'm genuinely not seeing the difference. How do you decide which rules are ones you should implement, and which ones you don't care about because "it's only a co-op"?
The undo button is a convenience in a solo/co-op game, and that's all. You are free to not use it if it bothers you. We can provide an option to disable it if you can't trust your friends in pass & play.
I keep saying that I LIKE THE REWIND BUTTON and I intend to keep using it to correct my genuine (and unfortunately frequent) careless mistakes. I don't want it disabled. It isn't that I don't trust my friends, and anyone willing to cheat in a game with me would very quickly become a person I don't game with.
Saying you shouldn't be able to rewind once you've revealed hidden information would make the undo button hardly usable for much of the game. […] We prefer to allow the player to have the ability to rewind without restrictions that would make the feature useless much of the time.
That's a fair point. While I still believe that you shouldn't be able to change your mind based on that new information, I think that knowing what card your hero is about to (re)draw is much less of an issue than knowing what the upcoming environment/villain card will be, and other than a whole lot of irritating "are you sure you're done with your start/play/power/draw/end phase?" confirmations (obviously somewhat unreasonable) I don't think there's a way to avoid that issue anyway, as you say.
I'll modify my statement then. You shouldn't be able to undo hero turns once you've seen the environment card play (or villain card play if there's no environment play for some reason). So realistically this means:
I've noticed the rewind capability is kind weird in when it does and doesn't allow it - specifically how far back it goes. There have been a couple times where I've been distracted and forgot something or clicked the wrong button (as Silverleaf mentioned) - the worst is when I accidentally tell the software to decide for me (out of habit, because that's what I usually do) instead of hitting Confirm in one of those rare cases where the order matters.
Unfortunately, that means the hero who goes last is often screwed if they made a mistake and let the Environment start - and that's happened to me a lot. Many times, I have no way to stop the process, as cards are playing and and things are happening. (Or maybe I'm missing something?) By the time I can use Undo, it won't let me go back to that turn. 
So we just continue and deal with the mistake. (I just imagine how comically that played out in the comic, how the other heroes make fun of them, and move on. 
)
The undo button is not part of the rules. It is a time machine, and is outside of the rules.
The game rules are implemented and calculated for you because we have the power and ability to do so on a computer. We could have made it so that you have to keep track of everything, move cards around manually, and adjust HP yourself, but clearly that would be silly.
It's not because "it's only a co-op" or because of "rules are rules," it's because there is no demonstrable harm relating to anything you can do with the undo button in this game.
It allows you to go back to the previous hero turn (whenever that was). That was a decision by us to make the UI reasonable and try to avoid inducing analysis paralysis in some players. Technically we could allow you to undo to any phase back to the start of the game.
There is a bug where if you skip a turn or become incapacitated the undo doesn't let you go back as far as it should.
That makes sense.
What I've actually seen is sometimes I can go back two or three turns, sometimes into the villain turn and sometimes into the environment turn. I've never been able to go past the environment turn, though, and I can't find a consistent explanation for how far back it's going. 
Don't get me wrong! I love how the game has come out - you folks have done a wonderful job on this!!! 
If this is my biggest concern (and it probably is - the fact that I'm not thinking of anything else right now is a good indicater ), then you've done well. 
(And by that I mean I'm really not concerned about it. 
I just want to make sure you know it seems to be functioning inconsistently.)
The undo feature works consistently for me on iOS; it goes back to the previous hero's turn (which will include the environment and villain turns if the first hero in the rotation uses the button). This is with the exception of the aforementioned incapacitated bug, of course.
I just realized, solitaire apps almost invariably have an Undo button, which you can press as many times as you want, with no restriction on whether or not you've seen what's under the face-down cards. I can't believe every solitaire app ever made is so pro-cheating. ;)
I like how we kind of hijacked a different thread about a topic that was on the other one concerning the video game, and not a way to play it on your PC :P
Anyway, I'm in full support of being able to undo up until the Environment turn, with a confirmation of whether or not the heroes would like to pass to the Environment. The last person in line will at least have that confirmation to double-check to see if everything went as planned.
Can I firmly cast my vote against turning this app into “SotM: Vista”? I really don’t need more confirmation pages on this game. The mechanics already require a lot of confirmation pages. I’d rather play with people I trust. If someone accidentally gains secret information then we’ll do what happens when someone accidentally reveals too many cards from the deck or draws too many cards.
Let it go and keep playing. Maybe even make the same move you were going to make with no consideration for the extra information before it was revealed.
+1
This is standard in all games we play - even RPGs. Luckily, the folks I play with are great and have no (or at least few ) issues with ignoring known information.
v2.0 of the game should have a "We're cool, bro" mode and a "You look shify" mode. In the shifty mode, every move needs to be approved by an admin before the game can proceed. (I keed, I keed) ;)
Every move would be submitted to the forum for conformation confirmation. Both strategy and rules must be in line with groupthink, and no move may be approved without at least 4 pages of argument.
And subjected to train puns, split into separate threads, printed and filed in triplicate, lost, re-printed, lost again, recycled into party hats for Adam to wear around the office, and finally buried under landfill for twenty years.
It might take a while to complete a game against Akash Bhuta once the expansions are released.
I used the button today and I was alright with it.
For Co-op I would give an end of turn signal to pass the turn to the next player, and once you pass you can't make changes. It might work even better to put it before the card draw so you couldn't change your play if you drew a certain card that changed your strategy, but mostly I think an end of turn click or go back would be good.
It would also save some time, I messed up my power use for the last hero and it was a pain getting back to redo it. Having a checkpoint at the end of the hero turn, even as an optional setting would be really cool.