So I'm pretty sure we did this right, but thought I'd check. Infinite combos seem to be pretty well ironed out with rulings. Here's what happened:
Voss played forced deployment with a stack of minions in the discard. We weren't able to destroy it early, or bunker up(it was a bad game for us) so we braced for impact. Time Cataclysm layed out a surprise shopping trip ("Whenever a card enters play, deal each target 1 melee damage.") So now on Voss's turn a minion enters play, pause so shopping trip can hit everything. When we got out the third minion, the shopping trip killed minion 1. Now Forced deployment put back out minion 1, so shopping trip can kill minion 2. And around and around.
Each minion gave Voss armor so he was untouched. This left 2 of 3 heroes dead, but the third had armor. Can this resolution of abilities ever end when any hero has armor? Or did we do something wrong?
Sorry for double post, but also thought I would point out Spiff's FAQ says that the minions come out both in the order of players choosing, and in the order they are stacked. Thought I'd point out the discrepancey ;)
EDIT: Found the thread! There was no definative app tested answer there, but I do think that if Rampage can cause Apostate to loop infinitely, then Surprise Shopping Trip should do the same for Forced Deployment. They're not exactly the same case, but I think that they're similar enough that they'd be likely handled the same.* Someone with access to the Mega-Computer should be able to check this with Hair-trigger Reflexes (which actually provides a strong argument to support Ronway's position. It's far too easy to break the game this way.)
EDIT 2: See my post below for why I've changed my mind on this.
Already have done it in the Mega Computer, it does not cause an infinite loop.
The reason Apostate's infinite loop works is because the destruction occurs after the other target is already in the trash. Forced Deployment is already going through the destruction while the targets are entering the trash.
I'll take anything that fixes the loop. But I have to counter with the end of days/forced deployment combo. Days can kill all minions in play, then deployment, then the minions again. They don't have zone memory in that instance.
Notice the order of events in the End of Days loop.
End of days destroys minions.
End of days destroys forced deployment.
All minions in the trash enter play.
All minions are destroyed by end of days.
No minions are destroyed during the act of Forced Deployment putting them into play.
Basically when Forced Deployment is destroyed you pull every minion from the trash, then summon that stack of minions, if those minions are destroyed before forced deployment is finished they do not re-enter the que.
Already have done it in the Mega Computer, it does not cause an infinite loop.The reason Apostate's infinite loop works is because the destruction occurs after the other target is already in the trash. Forced Deployment is already going through the destruction while the targets are entering the trash.
[/quote]
Destruction isn't the issue here
the cause that makes looping appear
It's the damage that's done
From the rampaging one
That forces the loop into high gear
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why Apostate's two targets continually bring each other back. The issue is that the loop requires Haka to deal damage to the same card multiple times. So you're treating the relic and spirit as new targets every time they return. Meanwhile, Forced Deployment 'remembers' each minion, and only tries to return each one once. Finally, End of Days doesn't care about how many times a card has been targeted, and just keeps trying until every valid target is gone. The difference between the Haka/Apostate loop and Forced Deployment & End of Days loops is that Haka is dealing with targets, while Forced Deployment and End of Days deal with cards. So I can understand treating things as new targets, but the same card. Which is all well and good. But End of Days and Forced Deployment have almost identical wording ("Take all of the ___ cards from the Villain Trash and..." vs "Destroy all cards [except...] in play") and are handled in almost exactly the opposite manner. (I mean, besides that the fact that they do exactly the opposite things).
I can deal with a ruling that says "End of Days works this way, and Forced Deployment works that way", but I don't like it. The less contextual the grammar of SotM rules is, the simpler the game is.
For both Forced Deployment and Darken the Skies (which is the situation where this origianlly came up), you first take everything out of the trash, then put it into play.
This was speculated about Darken the Skies for awhile, but has since been confirmed for the video game for both Darken the Skies and Forced Deployment. No infinite loop.
As a fix, handling trash summons as a group works. But I still have to agree with Arcanist, no other effect that handles cards does them all at once. Even when "all" or a number are specified it's always one at a time: "Destroy all cards", "Deal each target x damage", "play x cards off the deck", "play the top card of each deck". All of these pause when an interupt happens, and resume when the interupts stop, even when wonky things start happening. But thank you for the answers, this is the first time I've had to stop lurking and actually ask a question
Take all minion cards from the villain trash and put them into play.
You take them out of the trash, then put them into play. So once the cards are being put into play they are already out of the trash. You don't recheck the trash, and destroyed minions would, by rule, enter the trash and not the que.
Darken the skies ruling makes it work the same as forced deployment.
The reason Apostate works is the effect occurs, then a seperate effect causes the first card to return, and when it is destroyed the first effect happens again. It is totally different.
