What's dealing the damage?

I'm going through the PDF that shows changes to EE cards for an update to my Clarifications PDF, and I noticed something that looks like it might have been a mistake, unless something's changed.

Both "River of Lava" and "Primordial Plant Life" used to say "at the end of the environment turn, each hero may destroy 1 of their (ongoing|equipment) cards.  This card deals any hero that destroys an (ongoing|equipment) card 2 (fire|toxic) damage.  This card deals any hero that does not destroy an ongoing card 4 (fire|toxic) damage".

Now, however, the "this card" is no longer in the text.  They both say "Deal any hero that does not destroy an (ongoing|equipment) card "H" (fire|toxic) damage".  The damage is just "dealt", with no mention of what's doing the dealing.  Of course, the card with the text on it is the one doing the dealing, but in every other case I know of, that's explicitly mentioned, and that's how it used to be on the card's previous printings.

Do we now have an implicit "if the card doesn't say who's dealing the damage you can assume it's the card you're reading the text from", or was that just an oversight?

I've brought this issue about "This card" before.

http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/forum/topic/horrid-cacophony-deals-damage

But it wasn't never properly resolved. No official word.

River of Lava and Primordial Plant Life aren't the only cards involved in the updated EE pdfs.

Look at Volcanic Eruption, Police Backup, Toxic Seaweed for example.

I too feel that it is important to explicitly state the source of each damage dealt.

The card itself deals the damage. In this case, it doesn't matter that it doesn't MENTION the source of the damage, as it isn't a target, so there is no way to counter it. You just kind of lose health spontaneously.

 

This is one of those rule clarifications that isn't really that important.

Actually, per conversations with Christopher during playtesting, the environment is considered a source of damage - only environment cards lack a reference to the source, and in those cases the environment is the source.

It would probably be cleaner to consistently reference a source, but the environment cards are short on space and I have a feeling fitting the extra text would be a challenge in some cases. :confused:

 

It is important, as there are cards that refer to damage dealt by Environment cards in general (reducing, ignoring, redirecting, etc.).

That said, I don't think it's too much of a leap to assume that the damage is always being dealt by the card that says so unless otherwise specified.

From The Glossary:

Environment: An Environment is a deck not played by a player which simulates the environment in which the game takes place. Environments have a deck of 15 Environment cards. Like targets, Environments can be sources of damage, but, unlike targets, the Environments themselves do not have HP and cannot be dealt damage, though some cards in an Environment deck do have HP.

And there it is! :blush:

Wow, checking the rulebook before posting on these threads would probably be really useful… :sunglasses:

 

(I seem to be saying this a lot, but… Thanks, Christopher!)

Environments can be sources of damage

They can be a source of damage, but the card doesn't specify that it is the source of damage.  Other environment cards explicitly state that it is the source of damage (Enraged T-Rex, Velociraptor Pack).  So it looks like the answer is that if the card doesn't specify the source of damage, then it's assumed that it's the card itself that's the source, and that this is particular to environment decks (?).  I haven't seen this happen on villain cards.

So River of Lava is fire damage dealt by Insula Primalis.  And Primordial Plant life is toxic damage dealt by Insula Primalis. 

I'm sure there's a way to break this...  :)

I'm sure there's a way to break this...  :)

Please do!

 

As mentioned earlier, Horrid Cacophony is one such villain card.



You're absolutely right, ketigid. I believe that's an error - the source should be either HC or The Matriarch, but I have no idea which. I know in the earlier thread you started (and that you linked to, above) we never received an official answer, but until we do I recommend we individually make an assumption and play.  :sunglasses: I like the argument that the source is "this card" (HC), personally, so that's probably what I'll go with when I play.

At least until we get some errata on it. :slightly_smiling_face:

The source is actually The Matriarch. Sorry! All damage dealt by villain one-shots tend to be from the villain character, though The Ennead plays fast and loose with this rule-of-thumb.

Can/should we post that as official errata?

Thanks for the response, Christopher! :grin:

 

Yeah… definitely looks like that should be official errata.