After our game we began looking at the card Wrest the Mind and found something that we don’t think can possibly be correct. We are aware of the errata, but it doesn’t change this potential infinite (as infinite as you need it to be) damage loop.
If the Visionary were to play Wrest the Mind on herself, could she perpetually redirect the instances of 3 damage that are coming to her from redirecting the damage in the first place. Let’s give a scenario:
The Visionary with Wrest the Mind played on herself deals X damage. She then uses Wrest the Mind to redirect that damage to a target of her choice, then she takes 3 damage for being the one with the redirected damage, and 3 damage from redirecting the damage. Couldn’t she then redirect these 2 instances of 3 damage indefinitely until everything that she wants to kill is dead, and then promptly take as much damage as she has hitpoints to end the game and knock herself out in the process?
We are sure that it can’t possibly work this way, but at the same time, we can’t find anything to disallow it. I am aware of the “you may only activate each individual instance of power once a turn” ruling, but this isn’t even listed as a power. Afterall, it can be used while she is cocooned and completely unable to use powers. Any clarification on this would be most helpful.
I’d say that it was “in character” for her to wrest her own mind. Afterall, I could see her dark half wresting control of her heroic half and then nuking everything in sight. It just wouldn’t make for a very fun game… I’m sad to see it no longer playable on other heroes, since that too is thematic, but it does in fact appear that this will make it more balanced.
I’m glad to see that it has been addressed. In the meantime, we will continue saving the multiverse and looking for more weird interactions/misprints. I want this game to be the best it can possibly be since it is what I have always wanted in a game and I never knew it.
Maybe instead of restricting it from being used on Heroes, instead have it read:
Play this card next to a Target, Villain Character Card. Whenever that target deals damage, you may redirect that damage once per turn to another target. If you do, The Visionary deals 3 psychic damage to that target and 3 psychic damage to herself.
If the target leaves play, destroy this card.
Or at least some kind of wording of the sense. It will only allow her to redirect damage once per turn, to avoid this error.
Rather than limiting it to once per turn, would there be a way to make the damage that she takes for using the power not come from her? (so that she can’t redirect it) In a different vein, you could put a clause on the card saying that she may not redirect the damage that she takes from this card… Either way, the current errata does work just fine, it just limits the card even more than it already had been by previous errata.
We decided to restrict Wrest the Mind from being played on any Hero because otherwise its existence constricts the design space of the game too much. There are a variety of cool things we’d like to be able to do with heroes in the future, and we don’t want to have to design around Wrest the Mind every time. We’ve concluded that effects like that should simply not be something that can be done to heroes.
Sounds like a great reason. And given that Visionary is supposed to be a hero, she’s not likely to take control of the other heroes, so thematically it also works for me.
Really, the only cases I could see Wrest the Mind useful on heroes are when heroes are forced to attack, such as Ra’s Flame Barrier, so that a hero is not forced to attack someone he’d rather not. Even then, the damage taken by the hero and Visionary likely isn’t worth it anyway.
Wrest the mind’s Target range is effectively non heroes targets other than the villain character card right? So is Chastise’s Target range. Let’s be consistent and change the wordings on their erratas so that they match!
Given how much spread damage typically is for heroes, it almost wouldn’t be worth the damage you’d take (unless the hero had some resistance/immunity to psychic).
Wrest the Mind has not been restricted to only non hero targets except Villian character. It can be played on hero targets, just not hero characters. Though, given the existing cards, such a statement is useless, as the only current hero target that isn’t a hero character does not deal damage.
Yeah, although playing Wrest the Mind on Decoy serves no purpose, as it cannot attack. I could see the possibility in a future expansion having a hero who has his own minions, at which point playing Wrest the Mind on one of those minions might be worthwhile, especially if these minions are automatic.