A Hero's Guide to Mr. Fixer

Because this is a Guide to Mr. Fixer, and not Questions about Mr. Fixer.

 

If you're having trouble with the site's search function, google "Greater Than Games [The topic you're looking for]" or "Sentinels of the Multiverse [Topic you're looking for]". I can tell you that method definitely works.

That's an extremely specific set of Google terms, and I can never remember the syntax for getting it to work.  Basically, I'm screwed.

if [site][term] is specific, then I have no idea how to help you.

Well if there was a poll (and I don't think there was), then I didn't cast a vote either.

And my vote goes to seperate specific threads with appropriate titles which are easy to search, accompanied by a collation of all relevant threads/posts (Spiff's FAQ works here, but I'd also like to see compilation thread or wiki for each hero/villain/environment as well). Plus I'm in agreement that the threads about Flamethrower's guides should not be used for general rules questions, rather they should be reserved for talking about strategy and discussion of the guide itself.

There. I believe that my theoretical vote cancels out Envisioner's. Carry on, people.

I think there’s a better way to handle this other than through an endless back and forth accomplishing nothing other than cluttering the guide, and that is someone simply answers the question and we all move on.

I’ll start,

  1. The general rule is card order matters and the 1st card play has its effect happen 1st. So if the tire iron is played before grease monkey the damage can be of any type because grease monkey happens 2nd changing the projectile damage to cupcakes or whatever. Of course if the tire iron is out second its all projectile. I play more casually though so I normally just use grease monkey fist Willie Nillie.

  2. No clue don’t have them in front of me.

  3. Driving mantis can happen the first time he takes two or less. It is optional to use though, the word may and all that.

  4. Strike and charge let him damage any target so he could still hit 1 hero if need be.

About the thread there should be an option for a mod to simply move the offending questions from envisioner to a new topic called Mr fixer questions or whatever, then delete all the superfluous posts saying there’s a difference between questions about character threadsnand guidesnto play the characters

This is is not true. Card order only matters during simultaneous effects. Says so right in the rulebook. What "general rule" are you refering to?

Grease Monkey and Tire Iron do not have simultaneous triggers.

Page 8 of the EE rulebook: "In all situations, card effects that happen simultaneously occur in the order in which the cards were played." It then goes on to say "In any ambiguous situation, the players choose the outcome", citing tied HP values as an ambiguous situation.

 

It has been stated *officially* that when Mister Fixer has his Jack Handle available, that any time a card states that he is to deal a target X damage, to mentally replace that "Mister Fixer deals each non-hero X damage," where X is both a number and type of damage. This is meant to imply that Jack Handle has an implied 'instead,' and that it is in fact impossible for Mister Fixer to deal damage to hero targets while Jack Handle is in play.

But doesn't fortitude and SHD ruling resolve that, A static and a trigger effect, and yet the ruling is they resolve in card play order.

Hard to tell when the Fort/SHD ruling never confirmed the outcome of SHD being played first (the ruling assumes Fort was first, and "card order" I think was misleading, not nessesarily inccorect).

Imbued Fire, for example, has you backtrack as you read the card effects due to the static nature of the effects right?. If you were unable to backtrack, the Heros would never get the +1 fire damage as that effect happens before the effect that changes all hero damage to fire. Static effects work different than triggered effects and are not subject to "timing" (which is the entire reason why the trigger clause is ommited in the first place).

Lets say SHD was played first followed by Fort. Lets also use Pauls answer of "card order". Legacy gets targeted by an instance of 5 damage. Read SHD first and it looks like it will trigger. But then you have read Fort, since it is in order, and now it looks like Fort will reduce that instance of damage below the threshold for SHD. "Card order" was used, but we reach different outcomes.

The issue is that we have no rulings on the topic of what does and does not constitue a "simultaneous" effect. Timing is conveyed through Trigger clauses. Simultaneous actions by definition happen at the same time. I just do not see how an effect with an explicit trigger clause and an effect with no explicit trigger clause can possibly happen simultaneously, or alternativly, how a player is supposed to deduce that on their own.

It really falls under the "ambiguous" situation as outlined in the Rulebook as far as I am concerned and is handled by player choice. That is most likely the reason >G has never addressed the issue directly, but will address things like "bountys" and "ammo" questions which have far less gameplay ramifications than does this.

Edit: It was Paul who gave the Fort/SHD ruling, not Christopher. Thread here https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/same-or-different. Jaymann pretty much says in that thread what I always assumed, and that is that damage count modifiers are nessesary components to figuring out how much damage "would" be dealt. I still believe the Fort/SHD ruling has been miss interpreted by the forums. Here is Paul talking about how "static" effects work https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/imbue-fire-cramped-quarters-combat. Notice he also mentions specifically how those "static" effects do not happen in any order (read: timing). 

Edit2: Back on topic to Fixer, the damage type mod on Tire Iron, I beleive, is a static modifier. Grease Monkey's type mod is a triggered effect, so would take precedence and override Tire Iron regardless of play order. 

Foote:

How I have believed it works, largely because of the two threads you linked:

Static triggers don't have a timing, as in they don't have a yes or no timing.  Triggered responses (like win conditions on villain cards) have a moment where they trigger or not.  If there aren't enough citizens in play second side Dawn doesn't flip, even if the next step is to put the last needed Citizen in play she won't flip, even though it is still the start of the villain turn, the time for that trigger has passed, it already failed.

Imbued fire does not work that way.  Anytime the damage is fire it gets boosted, which is why it doesn't have timing, it does not have a yes or no check that can't be redone, like triggered effects have.

If both imbued fire's effects were worded to be trigger effects then only damage that started as fire would get the +1, damage changed to fire by Imbued fire would not get the bonus, because the check would have failed, and would be done.

Multiple static effects do not have timing problems.  They can't.

Static effects can have timing problems with triggered effects, which is why Fort/SHD is resolved by the order they came into play.

The way this would work is static effects have timing of application, they do not trigger, but they do have to be applied.

If Imbued fire is out and Wraith has micro and would deal projectile damage (at a conditional +2) it is changed to fire, where it loses the +2 for projectile and gains a conditional +1 for being fire damage.  If she had TtE on her and Visionary changed it back to Projectile damage it would lose the conditional +1 for fire and regain the conditional +2 for being projectile.

All of those events occured, and had timing of application.  That is why fortitude and SHD can occur simultaneously, because as soon as the damage is being dealt to Legacy both would occur, Fortitude would be applied, and SHD would trigger, 2 effects simultaneously.  This is the only way I can reconcile the rulings, and I think it is how they see the game.

Let me be clear this is why I do not like the official methodology.  It forces keeping track of too many card timings, and in most of my games I let heroes decide the order of those interactions, because that much bookkeeping lowers the fun value for me, and more so for the people I game with.

I like your explanation better, and it follows the way I do my games, but I don't think that is the way they see it.

Christopher told us yesterday at the London meet that he had sorted out a new official ruling for the whole "Fortitude versus Superhuman Durability" thing, but I dunno if he wanted to announce that here himself or if it's okay for me to just say it...

Please, for the love of sweet baby Jesus in a golden diaper and for my sanity, please tell me. The cognitive dissonance in my head around the current ruling gives me stomach ulsers haha.

Oh man, if it is a sensible and practical solution to this question Foote and I will lose half of our argument potentiality.

Oh well, I guess all good things must come to an end.

By and large we agree on the destination, just not the best way to get there. <3

Haha. This proves that the original ruling was in fact correct and official, regardless with how it fits into the other rules.

This is why we don’t talk about rules in another thread.

Unfortunately, there isn't. Only Admins have that level of permissions, and all of them are travelling in Europe. Otherwise we would have dealt with this when it first started. :confused:

Anyone play with the Dark Watch Mr Fixer?   It seems like it should be an overall improvement for him.  Might make overdrive hard to play though.  

DW Fixer really changes the way that his deck runs. Overdrive becomes a decided, calculated risk, while Bloody Knuckles becomes a great one-turn buff that you can destroy to avoid its bad effects. DW Fixer is really a beneficiary of out of turn plays, allowing him to get ahead of his destruction cycle.

DW Fixer gets really strong when he has his full complement of Tools and Styles out and Is firmly ahead of the destruction curve. Hitting all villain targets for 5 damage? Easily done! Its all a matter of managing risk/reward.

I’m actually working on a guide to promo characters, which I’ll post in the coming days…

I assure you this is not the case. His damage output is certainly better on average. But for a deck whos main focus never was damage in the first place, there is more to the picture. 

Original Fixer has the distinct advantage of keeping tool/style setups and can tailor them to the current situation while quickly adapting to sudden threats. Those characteristics are sorely missed with DW Fixer, and that becomes evident very quickly when you first play him.

 

I think we're going to have to slightly disagree on this one.  If anything, DW fixer continues the vein of "use what you have" even more than the base card.  He also doesn't have the annoying problems of overcoming damage resistance to trigger his "everyone gets irreducible damage" stance, and gets more mileage out of lesser-used tools such as the tire iron (being able to take out things with 5 HP in a single attack is quite nice).  

The only scenario I've found where DW fixer is at more of a disadvantage than th base version is if you have a team that is unwilling to sacrifice anything, has nothing but one shots, or is composed of similarly setup-intensive heroes.  Othewrwise, I've found him to be just as useful, with the added benefit of being a heavy hitter- which gives him added flexibility, if anything!