Is the Bad Place SotM’s version of the Forbidden Zone?
Thank you Spiff. I pretty much do "get over it", as the only alternative to launching an extremely short armed insurrection against an unjust but invincible regime. But I reserve the right to complain now and then, as a way of venting my spleen, lest the constant pressure of silencing my soul's righteous fury in order to survive in our Fallen world should give me an ulcer.
I didn't have in mind "small government" so much as "large anti-government". The population would be educated in their own self-interest in order to protect them from the attempts of others to take advantage of them. The system of such education would be administered solely by those enlightened enough to understand the importance of ensuring it is never corrupted; they would run it in such a way as to exclude from the organization anyone ambitious enough to want to use the organization to their own purposes, instead of its stated ones (an intentional aversion of Pournelle's Iron Law). Put more succinctly, give the crown to whoever LEAST wants to be king, simply to keep anyone at all from being king. The "crown" would be something like root admin access to the ultimate database containing all information; everyone could view said database, but nobody would have the ability to edit it, except the single person most thoroughly proven to have no interest in corrupting the data.
As for >G, they have to exist in the world they live in, and that's why these rules are here. They need lawyers to protect them from other peoples lawyers, it sucks that they have to worry about that, but it would suck more if they didn't have any protection from people stealing their ideas.
They could just trust to fate; the odds are fairly good that nobody would have both motive and opportunity to act in any way that would actually cause them significant harm. The lawyers are so afraid that someone MIGHT bring suit that they never even consider whether it's LIKELY. To paraphrase a Vorkosigan book, "the evils they wish to protect against are imaginary; the ones they commit in the course of such protection are real".
It sounds like you're very willing to take a chance with other peoples' creative property. That's like gambling with someone else's money because you "just have a good feeling."
More like telling them to gamble with it. I'm not trying to keep the proceeds for myself or anything. I just think the world is legitimately a better place when people don't let fear of consequences stop them from doing awesome things. Although I'm a hardcore pacifist, I tend to agree with the common warrior ethos that, because death is inevitable, dying sooner but gloriously is a profitable trade. Applying that ethos to a person is questionable, since people have feelings and stuff, but applying it to a corporation makes perfect sense, because corporations are artificial constructs and devoid of emotions, survival instincts, or human rights. No corporation should ever outlive its purpose; if it can be dissolved, but leave a legacy which people will still praise twenty years later, then it has done better than if it "sold out" and stayed operational that whole time at the expense of its original principles.
I just don't see too much of a problem with the current situation. It would be one thing if the Greater than Games Folk hunted down people who use their mechanics to make custom characters and serve them legal warnings, but they don't. There is a very active forum on Boardgamegeek dedicated to custom characters that the G>games folk regularly visit. There was a post somewhere on the forum where someone had a link to a custom Bunker built deck on BGG and Christopher totally okayed it.
There are also many variations and mods of existing characters on this forum that G> have not at all interfered with, and so I don't think it's completely fair to compare them to companies like 4Kids and Toei that get youtube parodies pulled or like Sony who served a cease and decist letter to fans who were doing their own 3D Chrono Trigger remake, it's not like they're ever going to make one.
If I remember correctly, part of the reason Richard Launius was contacted to collaborate on Infernal Relics was he had posted Nightmist and Gloomweaver on the BGG forums.
Even though it would be cool and convenient to share custom hero designs on this website, the reasons G> gives for not allowing that are reasonable, and they don't stop people from doing it anywhere else, and so even though I can understand and sympathize with your position, I really don't think people's creativity is being stifled, and again it's really not fair to compare the G> folk who really work hard for their fans to mindless corporations that only care about money.
This makes absolutely no sense. If the game's designers can go and look at custom stuff on other forums, why on Infinite Earths wouldn't they be able to look at it here? I can sort of understand the logic behind them not being able to look at it at all, in case it influences their design process and leads to frivolous plagiarism suits. But this…I can't fathom how it could possibly be okay for Christopher to see something elsewhere but not allow it to be here.
it's really not fair to compare the G> folk who really work hard for their fans to mindless corporations that only care about money.
I wasn't so much "comparing" them as drawing a parallel. Ultimately, the system is the same, regardless of how you use it.
... Drawing a parallel IS, by definition, comparing them.
It would be a comparison if I was saying one was greater than the other. Simply saying that they bear some similarities isn't a comparison, as it's not evaluating them compared to each other; it's simply noting the presence of a link between them.
That's not how the word works. If you say one is like the other, you are comparing them. If you are saying one is better than the other, that's an EVALUATION. You were comparing them.
Technically, to say things are similar is comparing, while to say things are different is contrasting. I remember my middle school math. (Or was it elementary school math? I don't remember.)
As noted earlier saying that there are some similarities is a comparison. Whether you're drawing a parallel, contrast, or comparison between the two, you are creating an association between G> and the mindless, soulless corporations that want nothing more than to crush people's individuality for their own personal gain. Again, G> gives its fans a lot more creative freedom with its properties than most companies and artists. Having the restriction of not being able to put original characters on the main site is a small restriction, especially since the Sentinels community has many other networks and outlets. Is it a bummer, yes, but it's not the end of the world or freedom. Why is it okay to post original characters on BGG and not the main site? Probably has to do with liability, even if there are similarities between a character created on BGG and G> the distance between the two is much greater and probably easier to deal with legally then it would be if the character was posted on the main site. I'm not actually a lawyer and I don't think you are either, which means that neither or us is really qualified to talk about what G> could actually do to circumvent possible lawsuits. I can agree that it's a little unfair, but an alternative exists and the reason behind the decision is an understandable one. If you want to do something about it, you can create a site or even Google plus community dedicated to SOTM custom characters. If that gets shut down for no reason other than existing, then I'll probably join the revolution.
Which it won't; Chris et. al. are all really cool guys who wholeheartedly endorse creating custom characters. They CAN'T allow us to put it on their site because if they coincidentally release a hero similar to a custom one on the site, then some asshole could sue them. That's just a factual thing that, while unfortunate, is no less true because of it. But if we were to make our own site specifically for Sentinels Homebrew, I'm sure they'd say "go for it," just like they did with house rules and everything else.
I'm not a priest of Zeus either, but I feel qualified to talk about what >G can do to prevent itself from being smited with holy lightning. Namely, nothing, because Zeus is a figment of the imagination who has power only when large numbers of people agree to beat up whoever they've decided he doesn't like. The law is the same - an imaginary bully whose torments are inflicted by and upon real people, of which which the latter deserve better and the former should know better.
In any event, I still say that it'd be trivially easy to have a "we are not responsible" clause in the forum terms which would cover >G's arse against any possible lawsuit, and would remove this (admittely also trivial) inconvenience of their fans. Oh, and I'm still waiting to hear whether it's okay to link to offsite creations, although I'm suspecting so since it looks like several people have already done it.
I think you are highly overgeneralizing the legal system. Yes, it can be used to bully people, but it can protect them too. The implication is that G> is using the law to bully its fans and limit their creativity, which I don't agree with. The little man can be just as much of a bully using the law as a corporation, and if the problem could be solved with a simple disclaimer, they probably would've done it. Even though the general consensus is usually that lawyers are evil, but I doubt the ones employed by G> are sitting in a dark room cackling, "Muwaha Yes! The stifled creativity of fans make us stronger and more powerful. Quick! Someone hand me a baby, I forgot to eat breakfast this morning."Considering how lenient G> is with someone like Spiff who has made tons of SOTM related material, if you haven't checked out his site you should, such as environments and alternate character cards, I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt to the team and their lawyers.
On an unrelated note, I can never find the forum for custom characters on BGG, could someone link it for me?
I don't think Envisioner is saying that GTG is using the law to bully anyone, I believe his line of thought is more along the lines that GTG is allowing the fear of a potential lawsuit to prevent them from providing a better service to the fans. For instance, if someone were to post something that later became a character and that someone then sued GTG for stealing their idea, I am sure GTG could pull out early drafts or notes, or something else that would ultimately prove that their character design predates the fan's post and eventually get the suit dismissed.
Having said that, I have to agree with GTG on their decision because such a lawsuit would tie up resources and take up a lot of time and potentially delay the release of future products and affect the company on a magnitude that is much higher than the inconvenience of not being allowed to post custom characters on the GTG site, especially when an easily accessible public forum for that can be found on BGG.
If GTG would take the position of allowing such submissions and be willing to shoulder the burden of potential legal action I would applaud their stance... but given the potential consequences of such action (even with the low probability of negative consequences) I have to agree with their decision to just not risk it. We all have to pick our fights and I think that one is just not the right one for a company of this size that is currently so heavily engaged in other creative endeavors.
There isn't really a specific forum for custom characters, but there is a forum for all variants, house rules and new characters included.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamefamily/17936/sentinels-of-the-multiverse
And then go to the box marked "Linked Forums" and click on the bit marked "variants", that will bring up all variants from the various Sentinels Forums on BGG, base game and expansions.
Here's a direct link to the most relevant forum: http://boardgamegeek.com/forum/1051076/sentinels-of-the-multiverse/variants
But in its absence, the protection continues and the bullying vanishes. It's much the same as with guns - having a gun might protect you from other people who also have guns, but the nonexistence of any guns anywhere would protect everyone.
The implication is that G> is using the law to bully its fans and limit their creativity, which I don't agree with.
I don't think they're doing so intentionally, it's just an inevitable side effect of their participating in the system.
But in its absence, the protection continues and the bullying vanishes. It's much the same as with guns - having a gun might protect you from other people who also have guns, but the nonexistence of any guns anywhere would protect everyone.
. . . from guns.
If you get rid of the legal system you only get rid of the harm the legal system does, there is a whole lot of harm that isn't started by the legal system. If you get rid of the legal system, you have to create a new one to stop that harm. Just like if we get rid of current government and revert to a tribal structure, there is still government, it is a tribal government.
The minute people get together and start acting as a group for group benefit you have a government.
The minute a group of people get together and agree not to kill or steal from each other you have a legal system.
From there it evolves into more formalized and bigger goernments and systems.
Are we really bringing up the danger of firearms on the subject of not being able to post up "Original the Superhero" on the Sentinels forum?
Really?