I saw that Penny Arcade's PATV program "Shut Up and Sit Down" did a review of Sentinels, and I was quite excited to see that it would get more exposure.
I understand subjectivity in reviews, but this is just...inaccurate. They seem to be confused and frustrated by a lot of aspects of the game that most people praise (not having to look at the rulebook, game variety, etc.) and go so far as to say that there are little to no tactics or strategy and you just hit the boss over and over again. I mean, I know that some bosses are pretty straightforward, but how many games did they actually play?
Fortunately, it looks like the bulk of the comments are Sentinels fans creating accounts just to post up "I find this review to be inaccurate and poorly constructed". I don't think too many people will be discouraged by this rather disappointing perspective, but I thought it was worth bringing to the attention of the community.
I can agree with them that there are times that the board gets a bit cluttered and confusing, but they seem to be speaking from a perspective of someone who has never played a board game before...
I....am actually getting much angrier about this than I thought I would be. I just hope that people take this with a grain of salt, try it out some before blindly trusting. Or even better, hopefully Penny Arcade will revisit the game, after they figure it out properly. This is honestly my favorite game (ever), so I have high hopes that PA will find it great eventually.
From what I understand, Gabe and Tycho are actually on first name terms with Greater Than Games, and are quite good friends. Carl from Automata is in GSF, for Fanatic's sake! I think this perspective is purely one held by Shut Up & Sit Down. Again, I'm all for a critical perspective, but their concerns seemed to be from the perspective of someone who has never played a board game. Like, ever...
I wouldn't go so far as to say "quite good friends", though we often chat with Jerry at PAX when he has a bit of free time in the Tabletop area.
Also, fwiw regarding this review, from my perspective, I don't take reviews personally, and Sentinels is big enough that we are firmly in the "any publicity is good publicity" stage, so I'm not concerned about SUSD's dislike of the game at all from a business perspective. :)
I figured any publicity was good publicity. I'm not worried that this will cause any damage to >G or Sentinels, but this review is just not very good! I could understand if they critiqued some of the more complicated decks or villains, or even the various rules confusions that are often confirmed by the forum, but saying that there are no tactics, strategy, or teamwork to this game? And their main frustration was the variety of games to be played? It just seems like such a strange thing to critique.
For those who haven't watched the review, all you need is this quote:
"Sentinels has a lot of love online, and I think it is that treacle that makes you feel like you're enjoying the game..."
So, they basically state that all of us who think we like this game, who think that the gameplay is good aside from the theme, are wrong. Hey, what's the forum policy on swearing? Because seriously, f*** them...
Those guys are obviously mostly just in love with how cheeky they are in their videos. I agree it seems like they played the game once then ran outside to start filming some antics.
I don't think their basic feelings are out of line with what my friends who don't like the game feel as well... but they definitely went for the sensationalist approach to their review, which is really a sign of the growing popularity of the game. It's cool to bash what's hot.
There are all kinds of people who love this game, and for many good reasons. Whatever the reasons these guys didn't.
It won't hurt the game. I mean I'm sure a good review would have had some fans of theirs ordering it solely on their review, but overall this game has been growing ridiculously and it has done so because of the quality of the game.
It seems like the reason why was lack of strategy, cooperation, and tactics. Also, too much and not enough variety at the same time.
I'm not worried about the game suffering any on a critical or financial level. I'm more disappointed at the vagueness of their review, their need for "style" over substance, and their criticisms being so painfully obvious that they hadn't played much of the game at all. I visit Penny Arcade daily, and I've seen a few of SU & SD's reviews and been unimpressed. But this? This is just sloppy, and (while there were moments) not terribly funny.
If enough people point out to Gabe and whatshisname that these dorks have a bad product which shouldn't be associated with PA, they'd probably drop them.
Weird that, isn't it? Obviously I didn't really like the game when I first played it, way before I discovered this forum. And I only think I like it now because you guys all do. Sigh.
As for theme vs gameplay, well I'm a good barometer for whether this game's decent or not - I don't read comics and don't care much for superheroes, I prefer dry soulless abstract-ish Euros to anything that's dripping with theme and I'm turned off a game if it doesn't have either coloured cubes or some kind of meeples. I really shouldn't like Sentinels because it just isn't my kind of game. But I think it's awesome - not the best game I own but the one I most enjoy.
Huh. I need to think about this quote a bit. I am very much a fan of the genre, but after Sentinels my other "go to" game is Go. While not European, I can't think of a rough better description of it than a dry abstractish game dripping with theme. It's too stark for colored cubes, though, only black and white stones.
Go is one of the greatest games ever created, but Sentinels is the game I most enjoy as well.
That said, I watched about half of the review - the amount that I could before my daughter woke up and asked for her screen time - and was not especially impressed. I think I'll have to watch a few more of their eps to see if they were having a bad day, or if their reviews are so universally shallow.
honestly, I too was a bit shocked by how negative it was.
But then I remembered that literally every single time I've seen this game demoed with "newbies", at least one of them has loved it and bought it on the spot (not sure how many times that is but it's definitely more than 10). Is it complex? absolutely. will that turn some people off? sure. Do I consider that a huge issue? I do not.
I mean, I chuckled. That said, writing something and putting it out to the world makes one develop a thick skin. *shrugs* Not the game for them. No worries.
I also found that funny. Then we game with some players who are perfectly happy scoring flawless victories against level 1 enemies with the best heroes. One has yet to play anyone but Legacy.
They had mixed feelings about Betrayal at the House on the Hill as well and I love that game. Actually I have disagreed with most of their reviews. I guess we just have different tastes in gaming. For example, I personally love when there is barely a rule book and all the rules are on the cards (or board or whatever) being played.
Its fine, the game is already successful and I already have a group to play it with.
One of the tings that personally confused me was (I'll exagerate here) their utter horror at the idea that there are multiple types of damage. Maybe it's because I'm a big fan of role-playing games, but is having thematically, but not mechanically, different damages really such a bad thing? I've rarely encountered "battle games that didnt have at least three types if not more.
Another thing, and I think I realize this will turn into a rant but I can't stop myself, do they not get the idea behind a game where you fight things? "All your doing is hitting him and lowering his hp" (pained wail for exageration and comical effect).... well, duh, it is a game about fighting villains. You know in Mortal Kombat all you do is punch the other guy in the face, you dont have the option to engage him in a philosophical discussion or steal his girlfriend because that isnt the focus of the game. I've played a few board games like Descent and Runebound, but I never thought of complaining that all I could possibly do was kill monsters, that's the focus of the game.
Finally, I get that the sheer amount of text can get overwhelming in Sentinels, I mostly play solo and that has given me some trouble before, but don't most card games have rules on the cards? Magic is hugely successful, but on the cards without the keywords it reads very similiarly to Sentinels, and if you don't know the keywords that is very helpful. I just feel like they blew the level of complexity out of proportions.
P.S.
@Christopher: When they pictured you in the past (I assume it was meant to be you) you had an old style pipe. Do you own such an item?
I really shouldn't like Sentinels because it just isn't my kind of game. But I think it's awesome - not the best game I own but the one I most enjoy.