Accidental Second topic about Villains/Broken City/For Profit Preorder

General GTG General Discussion
961

A couple of things about Tactics.  One, I think it's important to remember that, being a very different type of game, it appeals to a different audience than SotM.  At PAX South, for example, Tactics was very popular and being demo'd consistently and all of the teams that played in the tournament learned the game there, which speaks to it's ease of entry.  GtG has says they are committed to growing Tatics and know it does not have the same initial base as a SotM expansion so I wouldn't get worried about it winding down just yet.

As much as I love SotM (it is my favorite game), Tactics does the best job of any game I've ever played of truly capturing what it feels like to be that hero.  Tachyon doesn't rely on card mechanics to simiulate speed, she literally runs acorss the entire map in one turn.  Ambuscade is a sneaky hunter, Bunker is a slow moving armory - these are things that you don't feel as much in the card game and one of the great strengths of this game.

As for Base sets, Tactics appears to be going by teams so I would expect the next set to be Prime Wardens focused (including CC).

962

Just adding my voice to this concern. I quite like the general artwork, and some sexualization has always been there (I've always been a tiny bit averse to Visionary simply because of that corset thing), but it has slowly gotten more prevalant—especially in the latest art for the preorder. Mindphyre (another female with psychic based powers) has an outfit that can only be painted on. Breasts and hips keep growing, waists shrinking. Contrast this to the males, whose crotches seem to keep getting broader and flatter. 

Where have all the bulges gone?

963

Where have all the bulges gone?

Long time passing
Where have all the bulges gone
Long time ago

964

I'm interested to see just how different five Spites can be.  I feel a bit sceptical, but hopefully the execution will be good.  (Not flawless, though.  We leave that to K.N.Y.F.E.)

Yeah, I was surprised by that.  I mean, don't get me wrong: even from the start, a few things in the design of the female characters raised my eyebrows.  In particular, I still can't get over the total lack of practicality in having Wraith and Visionary wear strapless plunge tops.  How do those even stay up?  Why not have sensible, supportive, gravity-compliant shoulder straps?  Anyway, such things apart, I think the early female character design is good.  I particularly like Young Legacy's fairly massive forearms.  Not so sure about newer ones,  MindPhyre in particular.  (Mind you, I think Tactics Wraith's outfit is no longer strapless - but she's aquired some higher-heeled boots and a shiny, PVC-esque black outfit instead?)

As for male character design, the recent one I dislike is Prime Wardens Argent Adept.  How does he even get into that onesie?  I really feel like a belt would have improved that outfit a lot.  The other Wardens look pretty good.

965

Long time passing
Where have all the bulges gone
Long time ago

I asked Jerry, he told Visionary
Visionary sang a song just for me
Sentinels gave a message to me
Haka screamed and then he asked me
Where have all the bulges gone?

ugh sorry

966

 

Man, I remember when almost all of Dawn's male citizens were buff dudes wearing tank-tops. A supervillain after my own heart! Now they've got actual CLOTHING on. Siiiiiiiigh.

 

(Also I think all the Spites look pretty interesting and have good potential for a variety of powers, myself.)

967

I've talked about this before, but I'm always disappointed to see big boobs with no shoulder straps.

I'm good with the boobs (as long as not EVERY female character has huge ones), but there's no way it's anything approaching realistic to expect a woman to run around fighting villains (or doing anything other than standing around) without a decent bra if she has anything larger than bee stings.

I wear an E/F cup myself and even in an ordinary everyday bra I can't run without pain. A sports bra is necessary for exercise. A strapless thing is fine for looking pretty in a cocktail dress but not for anything strenuous. Trust me on this one.

I love Adam's art in general, but way too many of his female characters are desperate for straps.

968

Personally I think the best looking artwork so far is Operative, she looks great in her promo outfit, but even then where are her muscles?

I prefer style and realistic appearances to the standard sexualization, and with a lot of people here that is part of the initial attraction of SotM.

Tachyon, Fanatic, Wraith, they all looked like real human beings, same with the guys, I mean we don't have any couch potatos in the group, but we seem to be heading into more standard comic book terrain.

Mind Phyre might be the worst of it, she looks emaciated except for one area of her.

I can dig making her emaciated and sickly, she's a wacked out with drug induced super powers, but then sexualizing that with an unrealistic build and outfit is frankly gross.

We've all seen Adam's art grow from nice to really high quality, I just hope we don't have to give up one of the best aspects of Sentinels Comics in the process.

969

I agree fully with all the complaints about the oversexualization of the new female characters. It makes me less likely to buy into tactics.

970

I gotta agree with the sexualization comments, especially about MindPhyre. It feels a little cheap and gross to me portraying her that way. I hope this isn't a trend with the Sentinels Comics products.

971

The boobs-on-a-stick look got old for me very quickly, I have to say.

I don't mind women looking sexy (although having all female characters with the same body type gives the message that only that type is attractive), but I want them to look realistic and most of all competant too, not like they'll fall over and break if there's a slight gust of wind.

I'd like to see the occasional slimmer or even skinny male hero too, just for variety.

972

Yep. This is particularly relevant to me as a female gamer, since it's often the case that there are no or few female characters in games and if there are they are usually exclusively cheesecake-style, wearing clothing that's wildly inappropriate for the job they're supposed to be doing. I'm good with tight and/or revealing clothing or even nudity, but not if you're off to fight a dragon. It's really tiring to see that all the damn time - women aren't "proper" characters, they are just there to look hot. Or they don't exist. And they all look the same.

So when we got the base Sentinels it was really refreshing to see four female heroes (and one "other") out of the ten, with none in ridiculous backbreaking poses and all in clothing that isn't the superhero equivalent of the chainmail bikini (okay, so Visionary's is pushing it a little for some people, but it's not so bad). I'd really hate for Sentinel Comics to lose that more inclusive flavour.

And so to game artists in general, here are my requests:

  • More variety in male and female bodies please, not just skinny-with-huge-boobs females and huge beefcake men.

  • Dress characters appropriately for their role/job/the weather.

  • Don't make anyone sexy just for the sake of being sexy. Sexy is fine, but as above, have them behaving and posing in a way that's appropriate for the scene, and their character. No Playboy poses during dragon fights.

  • And for goodness sake, WOMEN NEED STRAPS!

973

Argent Adept is pretty skinny. Also, just pointing out The Scholar…

There’s also Dark Watch Nightmist. She seems to have put in some weight, to me at least.

Not that I don’t see your point or anything, but I wouldn’t let a little thing like character design keep me from buying the game. I mean, even if you don’t like the character direction, that doesn’t mean the character’s personality is going to be affected. It’s just how they look. Why should something superficial like the characters’ appearance matter so much that everyone is acting like the company is going downhill?

974

AA's only skinny relative to buffed-up characters like Legacy and Haka and so on. He looks pretty "average healthy male human" to me, not skinny.

The Scholar is the only overweight character, in how many is it now? 26?

All the other males that aren't hidden in a suit are muscled up.

There's also Dark Watch Nightmist. She seems to have put in some weight, to me at least.

Again, she looks a relatively normal healthy size (despite having a waist only a little bigger than her head - I can forgive that in comic style) which just contrasts with the lighter build of every other female except Sky. Even Sky with her muscles is pretty slim.

Not that I don't see your point or anything, but I wouldn't let a little thing like character design keep me from buying the game. I mean, even if you don't like the character direction, that doesn't mean the character's personality is going to be affected. It's just how they look. Why should something superficial like the characters' appearance matter so much that everyone is acting like the company is going downhill?

I hate to be a dick about it but with respect, this seems to be a bigger deal for women than men, and that's almost certainly because of the way female characters are portrayed (if they exist at all). It's hard to see why it matters when you aren't affected as much.

Character design is not a little thing. Not for me, and not for a lot of people. If it isn't important to you, that's fine, but not everyone is you.

I can't speak for the others who have commented, but for me I'm expressing my concern that Adam's art is moving towards what I'm tired of seeing in comics, board games, movies, ads, video games, etc. It would suck for an IP that made me happy with its inclusivity and portrayal of female characters to move away from that into being just another game where women are reduced to boobs and butts.

And it genuinely concerns me that the art might move so far in that direction that some potential customers will be put off, and that would be very sad. I don't think the company's going downhill, but I needed to express my opinion that I don't like the direction the art's going in even though I do like the art (it's the subject that I have issues with). I just think it's something >G needs to think about.

975

As a male who plays primarily with his wife and now (as of last weekend) his 8 year old daughter, I have to agree with those who have noticed the shift in the artwork.  Despite not being female, I am sensitive to it because I know my wife is not a fan of "traditional" comic portrayals of female chracters and we are both not ok with our daughter, who loves super heroes, being exposed to that as the predominant look for female superheroes.  It's one of the reasons we've always enjoyed Sentinels.  I truly love Tactics and Adam's art and would hate to not continue to own all of the products but if the art does continue in that direction I eventually will stop.  I only speak for myself on that regard, of course.

976

And the problem isn't the character designs in of themselves - the problem is there pervasity.  Every super-heroine is a busty twig.  Every guy is a bulky tank.  As has been so aptly demonstrated in this thread, it's so pervasive that it's skewed our perception about what is realistically normal.  And that's the real problem.  The occasional exaggerated character design would be fine on it's own, but now each one feeds the monolithic monstrosity that has invaded our art.

977

For the record, I do think that we've seen some pretty great (attractive but not highly-sexualised) female character design relatively recently in K.N.Y.F.E. and Parse.  

I'm relieved that someone agrees with me about this.  I thought twice before posting it.

978

Weirdly, I somehow missed your post when I wrote mine. I don't know how that happened! But yeah, gravity-defying breasts make me a sad Silverleaf.

979

Actually, if we both posted our anti-strapless comments entirely independently, I think that reinforces the strength of the point.  :)

980

There's got to be some kind of reinforcement/bra type comment I can make here. :wink:

Agreed though!