Damage reduction and "enters play"

Other Games SotM Game Engine
1

Had a game tonight with Matriarch in Omnitron-IV.  While an Internal Defense Grid was in play, Muninn came out.  Other rulings have said that a card "enters play" before its text takes effect, so does Muninn take a point from the IDG?

 

It seemed to me that if he was sufficiently in play to have HP, then he probably also had his DR, but I figured it was worth checking.

2

This is one part of the rules I am always so iffy on. However I would say he would have his DR.

3

I disagree.

… He is right, but I can’t be seen agreeing with him.

4

I would say that between an action and an ongoing effect, ongoing effects should take precidence. I would say his DR is "ongoing." Any card text that prompts an action to occur immediately ("At the start/end of the turn..." "Put ___ into play..." "Deal H targets X damage..."). If it just says to decrease all damage, it's not telling you to necessarily do anything at the moment, so there's no order of operation. Rather, it's an "ongoing" action.

I don't really have any rulings to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that's how I would always play it.
 

5

I agree that he would have his DR. Had the same issue when Internal Dfense Grid tried to shoot my Platform Bot. I always play that passive effects are automatically applied before triggered.

However, just to play devil's advocate, IDG was in play first so maybe it has precedence. Or, maybe the official ruling that "When applying damage the players choose the order that effects are applied," applies.

 

6

Technically I'd argue the dr is a triggered effect, in the form of if this card takes damage, reduce it by 1, so it occurs outside of the sequence of effects due to playing it. 

7

When he takes damage, yes. But as soon as the target enters play, it applies. That's my stance on it.

8

And since Expatriette's Hairtrigger Reflexes also kicks in when a target enters play, it's only fair to the target that they get their DR.

9

I honestly haven't seen any good evidence to support the argument of different parts of the card coming into play at different times. It is all in play, so it all happens.