I just made two posts. A Hooray Post and a Boooo Post. Go there, and share your joy and/or misery. Peace!
The forum rules are pretty clear that you are not allowed to accuse others of malice, which was the core of my issue here was some folks accusing GTG of malice.
I actually donât care if people simply arenât interested or arenât happy with some of the new content so long as theyâre not throwing around accusations of GTG being malicious by doing this when thereâs little evidence to back that up.
(I think in general thereâs a lot of peopleâespecially gamers unfortunatelyâwho need to understand the very important difference between disagreement and being an unconstructive jerk in how you disagree. Itâs always the latter I actually take issue with on things like this.)
Should I wait to buy my son all the previous expansions? Is the real question. Also, i cannot order out of the store at GTG
illusive622: Depends on how soon you/they want to play it. This new set of expansions isn't going to be completed for the next six years, which is... a bit of a wait.
And the existing version of the game definitely is enjoyable as-is, it's why we're all here after all. :)
I was scornful and skeptical at first too. Waiting for Sentinels of Earth Prime too. Looking to 3rd party expansions to suffice the urge for new content. Then I did my research and talked to all my family members and friends that are die hard for this game. It's like a new multiverse. New storyline, new art with some of the same heroes, villains and environments (a little different). Maybe different variants... it's not unheard of to reboot a comic character. I'm newly excited about throwing my moneys at new and improved. Especially now I'll be able to have two of each base character. Ooo... do the previous variants still crossover into the new version of the old character? Curious and excited.
Also realizing I got distracted from mentioning that if people are curious for a wider idea of the cards: https://old.reddit.com/r/sentinelsmultiverse/comments/l7g2ls/definitive_edition_cards_posted_on_the_discord/
You are too right. However, I'm attempting to buy everything he doesn't have (guise is his favorite and out of stock) off of the GTG store. However, it doesn't give any delivery options, so I cannot complete my purchase.
I believe they stopped their regular printings of previous content in anticipation of this announcement. So it's not surprising Guise is out of stock; they probably won't reprint him. I would look online, maybe on the secondary market.
There's something severely screwed up with the online store right now, where no delivery options exist for anything. GtG has been informed but I'm not aware of a response yet.
You can't really compare one to another - you're talking about hardware, on items that have a limited shelf-life. Boardgames have a very different rate of decay. It's haerd even to compare it software as yes, people do get annoyed at games companies putting out updates when they could just put out upgraded data packs instead. Almost every EA sports game (and the Sims) have people complaining when new versions arrive and they have to begin the process of buying everything again.
As for RPGs, you don't need to rebuy every book. For a lot of people you only need to have the core books, the supplemental expansions are very much a take or leave prospect, and often the lore parts can easily be re-used if you have them anyway. People are trying to compare this to Fantasy Flight updating a game, but look at how they handled Descent and XWing - they made sure there were things available for the players to move on to the new versions, they didn't essentially go "If you want to play the latest version, have fun rebuying lots of content you already own", and that's a huge risk here with how the messaging is coming across.
As for the arrogant and condescending
Providing helpful feedback or constructive criticism to help improve the new version for everybody is useful/encouraged. Complaining just about the existence of the new version is not very helpful and seems to be a waste of everyoneâs time.
That is not what is going on here - asking why there isnât more of an effort to find a way for existing players to upgrade isnât complaining about the existence of the game, itâs asking for people who have cared for and supported the game for a long time to be treated with some degree of consideration. As for construcive criticism, you may have noticed a number of people calling out the issues of inconsistent artwork (in the deliberate attempt to cover different eras), but it seems far too late in the process for that fair commentary to make a difference. It seems like you define constructive as things you agree withâŚ
Slightly off-topic, I'm trying to figure out where reboots lie in the pantheons of cash grabs - more often than not, they're driven by the desire to just sell something which is easier to market. Even something as creatively rich as the Planet of The Apes reboot, you have to admit that the branding is a huge factor in how it got funding. There seems to be an incredibly cowardly approach to genre shows/movies in the modern era, relying upon existing IPs instead of taking a risk on a new idea that could be more meaningful.
My list of creative industry cash grabs is something like - sequels, prequels, reboots, reimaginings, adaptations, shared universes, greatest hits albums, cover albums, accoustic albums, themed deckbuilders, director's cuts, special editions, variant covers in comic books... you can probably find a counter example for each of those that means you shouldn't ban them outright, but for the most part, they exist because on some level they're cheaper and/or easier than taking a risk on something original. I'm actually tired of the MCU as it just feels so intellectually and emotionally empty.
I'm not calling the definitive edition a cash grab - I have mixed feelings on it because I can see why it's a good idea to do it, but at the same time I just wish more was being done for the loyal fanbase. This post is mostly based on my amusement that we're now treating reboots as something normal and good which they really aren't for the most part. DC have done a few attempts to reset their universe now instead of trying to invest innew characters and Marvel is not so different
A product I would sooner have seen would be intro packs for places like convention libraries or boardgame cafes - 2 of the simpler villains (in terms of rule overheads rather than difficulty), 2 of the simpler enviroments and a fairly balanced set of 6 heroes, so that people could get a flavour of the game without being confronted with trying to pick those parts out of the massive selection the game has. It's maybe counter-intuitive, but while a big selection is great for experienced players, for newbies it can be really overwhelming. Not sure though that a big enough print run for this sampler pack could be justified, but I feel like it's something that bigger/more sprawling titles might want to consider if the board game cafe model grows after COVID
Woah, thanks for posting this. There are some surprisingly major changes to the game revealed here! I see some big alterations to how Tachyon, Ra, Fanatic, Wraith, Bunker, Wagner Mars Base, and Atlantis work.
One thing I noticed is that hero character cards are a different size than their decks. That means I canât stack them together any more, for storage or when handing them out to playersâŚI guess the idea must be to keep all the variants for a character cards in a different place than their deck. It feels a little less modular â but, on the other hand, we get to see more of the artwork. I laughed to see the reappearance of âTake that, Soviet slob!â
The one thing I think is a little disappointing is that the clarification of game language came at the expense of adding in more jargon to the card texts. I see a lot more specialized terms like âsummon,â âsalvage,â and âdiscover.â I understand the motivation to do that, but it does mean that weâll have more explanation to do with new players. It used to be a couple key concepts, and then âyou do what the card says!â Admittedly there was always in-game clarification, and it sometimes made for verbose cards, but for teaching I liked having the rules written more on the game itself than in a booklet.
I got a real kick out of the fact that Tempest still has the same quote on Ball Lightning. Geez, these guys really donât get how to write Tempest, do they? 
ViolentSilence wrote:
As for the arrogant and condescending Quote:Providing helpful feedback or constructive criticism to help improve the new version for everybody is useful/encouraged. Complaining just about the existence of the new version is not very helpful and seems to be a waste of everyone's time.That is not what is going on here - asking why there isnât more of an effort to find a way for existing players to upgrade isnât complaining about the existence of the game, itâs asking for people who have cared for and supported the game for a long time to be treated with some degree of consideration. As for construcive criticism, you may have noticed a number of people calling out the issues of inconsistent artwork (in the deliberate attempt to cover different eras), but it seems far too late in the process for that fair commentary to make a difference. It seems like you define constructive as things you agree withâŚ
Wow, thank you so much for interpreting my non-existent tone and for telling me how I define constructive. I really appreciate it. And since you may need help with this, my previous two sentences are sarcasm. Feedback relating to font sizes/tonal art dissonance is useful. Complaining about the existence of the new edition is not. Iâm not saying people canât make that complaint, just thatâs itâs not helpful to anyone (well maybe to the complainer for cathartic reasons). But since you say the real issue is supporters not being treated with consideration, letâs focus on that.
What exactly should that consideration look like or entail? Other board games may create some sort of upgrade kit for folks but thatâs not really an option here since it looks like all of the card art is new. So you canât have a partial upgrade kit when the vast majority of the components are brand new. The best they could do would be some conversion rules to make the old stuff work with the new stuff (which I believe Paul has stated will happen).
So what other options are there to show consideration? Maybe a loyalty discount or something. But how would that work? Who gets the discount? People who have bought everything? What about people who only own half of the expansions? How would you verify it?
Any other ideas? Please feel free to let GTG know what kind of consideration they should be providing so long term supporters no longer feel outraged by their audacity to create an awesome new product for everyone to enjoy.
Anyway, Iâve rambled on long enough. My apologies for any snarkiness. I hope you and all GTG fans have a great day.
Yeah.
To lean back and address ViolentSilence, one reason why I get irritated at âcash grabâ comments or the claim GTG isnât considering existing fans is that a lot of the changes being made directly address things existing fans have griped about. Bunker feeling weak. AZ needing some card acceleration. Drakeâs Pipes being an oft-dismissed instrument. Devastating Aurora being overwhelmingly one of the most punishing cards in the game. Etc.
How is giving people changes theyâve repeatedly said they wish existed or addressing things people have often felt are flaws a bad thing?
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There aren't many special words, and I personally like them. They're not hard at all, and they save a lot of text and reading. Nothing like, say, Magic: the Gathering.
I suggested in proofreading that they might want to "correctly" attribute that quote to Tempersonation, but they didn't bite.
I suppose that adding more rules to save card room and minimize reading is a reasonable choice, but I also think that one of the great things about 1st Ed. SotM is it's rules-lightness.
About Ball Lightning: That's probably because no one who doesn't have Biomancer or listens to The Letters Page would know who Tempersonation is. [Spoilers?]
Doesn't stop there from being references to Ammit (who, like Tempersonation, had its own card in EE) and The Adhesivist. And you can roughly guess who Tempersonation is from the name.
True. I suppose it could be justified because it's retcon, maybe. . .
Reminder: If the thread doesnât stay cool, weâll lock it. Weâre doing so well â letâs not ruin it? Please? 
Your tone is not non-existent. You should perhaps think about how you come across to others when you write something dismissive? Seriously, that's just generally good advice. It's not a good look when pointed out that you come across arrogant and condescending to then write "since you may need help with this". Don't get angry when other people point out your obvious faults and failings.
New card art is a production choice. Old art could be reused, and that is not difficult in the age of computers, so if people wanted upgrades for cards being replaced, the card art from the old version could be used in their stead, and therefore mesh more neatly with existing decks. If changes are minor wording tweaks and those changes can be addressed in a rules update, then only a limited number of cards could be replaced meaning people only need to buy x cards ouf of the 15/25/40 for affected decks, and an upgrade kit would use significantly less cards than a new game, and not need to come in a box with any artwork or complex printing requirements of its own. There are also options of paste ups via pdf. Not to mention that there are also timing questions that don't appear to have been considered, such as it hitting the market at a fairly similar time to the Arcane Wonders title, and it being not that long since the previous ultimate edition was published, though there wouldn't be much of an option there beyond waiting, and I can speculate why financially that may not have been an option. However, it's fairly obvious why it's going to jar with some people vs how it would look if they were putting out say an updated and refined version of Compounded, a game that has had no updates for a good few years now (and honestly I feel like it does everything Catan does, but better, so deserves an update and new push, even though I own everything for that too)
But well done on continuing the sneering tone, if you were genuine in apologising for your sarkiness, you might have thought to edit your post and remove it instead of going combative again? Just a thought...
TheJeysie - I wasn't calling it a cash grab, and I get why people get angry at it being labelled as such, I was just pointing out that trying to defend it by saying superheroes get rebooted was counterproductive because a lot of the reboots ARE cash grabs (and largely creatively defunct). The comics are basically a sign of having no faith in launching new heroes, so keep trying to do the definitive version of what happened. The movies are pretty much of the same ilk, they're just remixes in a different medium. I used to be a much bigger movie fan, but it's hard to get any enthusiasm now when more emphasis is put on SFX tent-poles. Ideally the release balance would be 60% empty popcorn films (I do enjoy those from time to time) with the remaining 40% a mix of quirky, worthy, original films as it seems harder each year to find something genuinely new. I'd say it feels like the current slate of releases is about 95% popcorn (and that's just a bad diet). I also worry about TV going the same way with so many franchise TV shows being made not because they have anything interesting to say or do, but because they know the audience is there (though at least we have the comedy value of trying to work out how many Game Of Thrones TV series start and finish before the 6th book gets published!). It was somewhat of a tangent, just riffing on reboots being a bad idea