When the last adaptive plating subroutine is destroyed, does omnitron lose immunity? Or does it stay immune to the damage type it was last immune to, effectivly neutralizing one of the heroes (unless a type changing card is in play)?. When a new adaptive plating subroutine enters play does it change this permanent immunity? Or does it make omnitron immune to yet another type of damgage?
Generalizing, is omnitron immune to one type of damage per adaptive plating subroutine that entered play, ignoring the second, third, or 4th... subroutine in play now?
The card says:
After omnitron is dealt damge omnitron becomes immune to that type of damage.When omnitron is dealt a diffrent type of damage, omnitron's immunity switches to that type.
I've always taken it that the APS is what's granting the immunity, thus if it's destroyed the immunity is lost. I would also figure taht as all APSs have the same description, they all work in exactly the same way, thus the only benefit Omnitron gets from having multiple copies out is that there are more of them for the heroes to destroy (so if they can only destroy one at a time, Omnitron gets to enjoy immunity to stuff for longer).
Since it doesn't say "At the start of the turn..." or "deal damage, if the damage is dealt this way...", it appears that the APR is supplying the immunity. As far as I can tell is if you break it, you break his immunity.
Omnitron can't really be immune to different types of damage with multiple APR. If he's immune to Projectile with one and another comes into play, the other still hasn't been "primed," so to speak, with damage. It has no effect until he's dealt damage. If dealt Projectile, he's immune to it from the first and the second doesn't trigger (because damage wasn't dealt). Let's say Ra fire Blasts him for 5 Fire damage. Omnitron is dealt the damage, the first APS makes him immune to Fire, and then the second makes him immune to Fire. He's double immune! But only to Fire, not in addition to Projectile. Any which way, you wanna break all of them that come into play. Unless your damage pool is rather diverse, they suck royally.
Would you think that a one-shot that said "omnitron becomes immune to projectile damage would be meaningless? If not, why do you think that APR is granting the immunity since it also uses the word becomes ?
My question was about an Adaptive Plating Subroutine entering play, being destroyed, then entering play again, not about two subroutines in play. That was already answered.
Adaptive Plating Subroutine has the same affect if the damage types of the heroes in turn order is melee,projectile,melee,projectile,melee… or melee,proojectile,fire,cold,lighning… or anything inbetween (melee,projectile,fire,projectile,cold…).
Basically, an APS is only useful to Omnitron if he's being hit with the same type of damage twice in a row. So, probably not too difficult to get around unless you're playing with, say, Mr Fixer, Haka, and Legacy or something.
I always place my heroes in an order that is advantageous for this, but Adaptive Plating Subroutine always causes issues anyway. Keep in mind, a lot of heroes derive power from making several attacks in a row, and they often deal the same type of damage with these attacks. A large number of heroes can't use a one-shot then a power and have them both deal damage to Omnitron. Some heroes rely on multiple attacks for their offensive, like Wraith with two powers, or Tempest's Vicious Cyclone. Some heroes specialize in double attacks - Absolute Zero's Thermal Shockwave, or anything of Nightmist's redirected through the Amulet. Ra can only attack him once a turn, maybe twice if he's willing to throw the Staff, and he can't use Imbued Fire. Sometimes there's no issue with the APS, but leaving it in play causes at least a momentary hiccup every single time.
One game I played featured Argent Adept, Visionary and Tachyon against him. They aren't known for their damage output, but they use different types. We left both Subroutines in play because we didn't anticipate an issue. It meant that Tachyon, on whom we had to rely to do the bulk of the damage, could not effectively overwhelm Omnitron in Lightspeed Barrages. It took some really complicated tricks from the Argent Adept to let her play cards on his turn, interspersed with his own fire and cold, and interrupted with Visionary's psychic attack to finally pull it off.
Why not just use the Adept to destroy the APS with his "destroy and ongoing or environment" song? Or is the APS a Device rather than an Ongoing? Hmm, wait, that wouldn't work, as I know it isn't a target so you'd never be able to destroy it if that were the case.
I don't think I'm quite understanding your first point. Do you disagree with me and think that he stays immune to a damage type after the card is destroyed?
For the second, my apologies for misunderstanding. As far as I know, cards don't retain any effects from being in play previously and start fresh when they enter play. No, APS would not carry over immunity if it was destroyed and another entered play.
As for your third, yes…that is what APS does. What does that have to do with what I was saying?
Yes, i think that omnitron stays immune to a damage type due to the usage of the word becomes.
Cards that say "…untill…" have effects after they are destroyed.(aka zelous offense and heroic interception), the latter of which is one-shot.Yes, i agree with you that the answer tom my second initial question is no.
You made a sidenote about adaptive plating subrountines sucking if you're damage pool is not diverse and i was saying that what matters is order of types, not number of diffrent types.
Ah. Yes, I meant that if you had a party that primarily dealt one or two kinds of damage, it would be rather tricky working around his immunity by order. If the order is Bunker, Expatriette, Haka, and Mr. Fixer, the likelihood of dealing only Projectile for two turns then only Melee for two turns can limit the party's effectiveness quite a bit. But you're right. If a damage pool is made up primarily of two different damage types (certain Ongoings and One-Shots being an exception), it isn't a problem if it shifts from Type 1 to Type 2 each turn against APS.
If an ongoing doesn't specify a timeframe, then it lasts until the card is destroyed and no longer. If I have an ongoing that says my damage is increased by 1 and it's destroyed, I stop getting the +1 damage. I'm not really sure why you would think Adaptive Plating Subroutine would the only ongoing in the entire game that somehow magically continues to funtion from the trash.
That's not entirely true. If a card says something happens until a hero's next turn (for example), and the card goes away, that doesn't change the fact that the effect is in play until the hero's next turn. I believe that's been determined on the forums, though I (of course) can't find it right now.
In the past I've always played it such that when the APS goes away, the immunity goes away, but I think a strict reading of the card suggests that the immunity does not go away.
What provides the immunity after the APS is gone? Well, my general answer is 'Comics!', i.e. it doesn't have to make sense.
A more logical answer might be that the APS alters the rest of Omnitron in response to an attack. With the APS gone, Omnitron can't be altered again, but the original alteration is still there. Just a possibility.
That was actually a question to get pppery to think about it in terms of 'story', if Tachyon runs at superspeeds to stip all the plating off of Omnitron which had previously adapted into an ultra hard shell to stop Expatriette's bullets from impact on its soft...ware... what is now providing protection from the righteous rounds of JUSTICE!
If we say that a card continues to apply its bonus after it is destroyed just because it doesn't say when it ends, I would love to play with Visionary and her ongoing retrival!
If Adaptive Plating Subroutine says "omnitron is immune to the type of damage it was last dealt", than i would think that destroying loses immunity, but the usage of the word becomes makes me think that omnitron does not.As areson9 said, things do not have to make sense.
It can make sense : what is destroyed is the "adaptative subroutine", the process by which Omnitron partly rebuilds itself to resist damage - not the result of this process. You managed to kill the nanobots who modify his molecular structure, but did not revert their previous work.
But this doesn't help with the question at hand - and I have no idea what the official answer would be. I know that I first played with the "lose immunity when card is destroyed" rule, then decided to keep the immunity, then went back to destroying it when the card is destroyed, for the only reason that there is no way for the heroes to get rid of the immunity otherwise...