Dmg dealt using Mortal Form to Energy modifiable?

Because of the specific wording on Mortal Form to Energy ("Whenever The Scholar regains HP, The Scholar also deals 1 target that much energy damage."), the use of the phrase "that much" was also present in Mr Fixer's Jack Handle. And it was ruled that "that much" in Jack Handle cannot be further modified.

So to confirm, "that much" in Mortal Form to Energy also cannot be further modified?

I would definately modify the damage normally.

I think the consensus on Jack Handle is that it is modified normally for each target, but that the starting amount is the original starting amount (not the modified amount that would have been dealt to the original target).

I suppose you could argue that the damage caused by Mortal Form to Energy should use the base amount of healing, but I would use the amount that the Scholar's HP was actually increased.

Basically I don't see Jack Handle and Dual Crowbars as a good source for further rulings, because I think they work very differently from any other card to date.

I think that if it is going to be modifiable, then the wording should have used the more consistent X where X is the amount of hp regained. So, the choice of not using the X convention led me to think that “that much” has additional meaning.

Which is why I think there is some room to argue that his energy damage starts as the base amount of healing applied to him (i.e. not factoring in healing boosts from solid to liquid or atlantis or requiring him to actually have been below his max HP).  However my guy feeling is that this card is intended to work off the actual HP regained.

Either way though, I definately think it is normal energy damage, subject to any reductions, increases, type changes, or redirection.  I just don't see any reason why it wouldn't be.

I just checked spiff’s faq, it says under Mr Fixer that Jack Handle calculates the modifications based on the original target first then deals that much damage to all targets. However, dypaca mentioned that Jack Handle changes its target to all targets first then modifies each instance of damage independently.
Which is right? Is there a link to either ruling?

Well I don't know where Spiff originally got that ruling from, but here: https://greaterthangames.com/comment/3949#comment-3949 is a much more recent case of Christopher giving a ruling that certainly sounds like your interpretation, then two posts down a clarification that that was probably not the intent of the ruling.

I think the confusion comes from people wanting to use Jack Handle or Dual Crowbars to double buff damage.  So they use Strike and Legacy boosts it to 2, then Jack handle changes it to all non-hero targets and they want to now treat this like a new damage with a base of 2 and boost it to 3.  The intent of the rulings is that Jack Handle and Dual Crowbars do not work this way.  They are more like redirection except that they actually add additional targets to the damage.  And like redirection, they don't get to ignore any effects specific to the new target.

The way I see it, and I can't dig out my cards right now to confirm the wording on everything, here's the difference.

Jack handle and dual crowbars change the target number on the strike power. Strike then becomes either 2 targets or all targets. Any buffs to the strike power apply as normal.

 

Energy form for the scholar takes the amount of healing gained and spits it back out as damage, which would then be modified by normal damage modifiers. I like to think about this sort of stuff as a beam going through lenses. After it leaves the card it is affected by whatever is floating between it and the target. So if all damge in decreased by one due to a global effect then the energy damage is reduced by one. Looking at the first post answers my only issue, whicch was if the amount of healing energy heading towards the scholar would have put him past his hp limit what do you do. It is only how much you gained.

So the scholar heals for 1 point, which becomes 2 points due to his water form, energy form then blasts out 2 damage which is increaed to 4 (1 for Legacy and 1 for obsidian Fields), seems like the proper way to play this to me.

Fixer would activate strike for 3 (1 base, 1 legacy, 1 obsidian fields) and Jack handle would change the target designation to all non-hero targets.

Yeah, that's how I'd see it. I've also presumed that if the Scholar is at full health, an attempt to heal himself will therefore do nothing and therefore he can't deal any damage. Or would he, actually, if there were buffs in play, just as, for example, if Ra plays Scorched Earth while there are no Environment cards in play but he's buffed by say, Legacy's Galvanise and Inspiring Presence, he'd still do 0+2=2 damage to all the bad guys?

Answered in the KantCon rulings (https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/answers-to-debated-questions-3871)

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11. Is damage dealt from Mortal Form to Energy modifiable?

Yes.

From the pending rules questions:

 

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Question 1:

If a card says "if [sonic mine] leaves play, destroy this card", is that card still in effect while Sonic Mine deals damage from being destroyed?

Example: Wrest the Mind is played next to Sonic Mine, then Sonic Mine is destroyed.  Can Visionary redirect the damage dealt by Sonic Mine?

Personally I have a hard time seeing why she wouldn't be able to redirect the damage this way.

Question 2:

Can damage be directed to Sonic Mine while it is dealing damage from being destroyed?

Example: Mr Fixer has Driving Mantis and destroys Sonic Mine.  Can he redirect the damage it deals back to the destroyed Sonic Mine?

Note that the answer to the pending question on Hypersonic Assault would effect whether there is any tactical reason to choose Sonic Mine over another villain target.  If Sonic Mine doesn't immediately stop dealing damage when it hits itself, then you may as well just redirect to Ambuscade.  Though I suppose having Sonic Mine still considered a valid villain target would matter if it destroys a Bot with Volatile Parts out.

 
These questions have been answered in the KantCon rulings (https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/answers-to-debated-questions-3871)
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17. Can you redirect damage from Sonic Mine with Wrest the Mind?

Yes, as it is still in play to deal the damage before it exits.

 

3. Using Hypersonic Assault on Matriarch first then the fowls, would that stop Matriarch from dealing damage from the destruction of fowls?

Yes, the second line is meant to modify the damage, not an order of actions.

 

4. Using Hypersonic Assault, Throat Jab, Offensive Transmutation, ect. on Sonic Mine, does that prevent it from dealing damage?

It does, as with the case of question 3.