If people want exclusives then we need a future space legacy who has evolved to the point of being a living planet! Shazam! >G just made $100k!
Looking at Kicktraq it seems we might be just shy of making the 75k stretch goal.
Wonder if >G is commited to the box regardless.
I'm not so sure. There have been a lot of people on BGG who have said they're likely to pull out their support at the last minute if it looks like the upgraded box isn't going to happen, which will make things even worse.
I've said it before and ill say it again: I would have easily backed at 120 if it got me all the old SotM promos I missed or heaven forbid a new a one.
As is there is no leveraging of their pedigree. Because I like SotM ill buy it on the shelf, but why invest more than cost for a game I might not like? Now if I invest and get something for the game I DO like that's way more compelling.
It feels like they got so wrapped up in not being a one trick pony that they forgot that people like their original pony
They're out of a lot of those promos, and printing new ones makes no sense to me. Spending money on SotM stuff that a lot of backers will already have instead of new GSF content?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You are making a lot of assumptions.
Rook city had 402 backers. Infernal Relics had 1197. shattered timelines had 2147.
Ignoring for a moment that 2147 is not a massive number, it is still 5x the number of RC backers and 2x the IR backers. So already there there are folks missing promos.
Now consider the fact that shattered timelines finished kickstarting in novemember. If you got the game for Christmas, you have no promos. If you got the game at a convention, maybe you have a few. Either way you certainly don't have all. You (much like >g) aren't thinking about late adopters.
tangentialy, those promos should be sold separately at convention but able to be earned by playing demos. At PAX if I wanted a F6 promo I had to take a spot at a play table meant o attract potential buyers.
Moral of the story, not everyone has been with this game since jump but dig it…forgetting that fact is a quick way to leave money on the table (as they found out)
EDIT: with the exception of minis, all of the new GSF content all comes in the way of stretch goals. They have nothing really worthwhile to pull in the larger pledges.
A logo tshirt? It's not like a slick graphical design t. Art prints? How about have a high bid reward for original art?
1) they want GSF to stand on its own not with SotM Crutches. Thats why there isnt any SOTM gear/promos/ect in the kickstarter. I completely agree with this. How are they going to know if there is any real interest in the game if there is SoTM Stuff that everyone is just pledging for that?
2) This isnt about money to Christopher . Sure he likes that he can make a living at this, but its never been about money - you just have to listen to him on any numerous podcasts to hear. He does this because he likes to make games. That he has been able to get to a point to make money and support his family? Awesome! But he'd be doing it anyways even if he had to work a 9-5 job as well. (it just be much slower for us :P)
3) Im thinking that the SoTM Community has gotten spoiled on >G Kickstarters, expecting bigger, better, and greater stretch rewards, and that they will all be met. For myself, I just want a copy of the game. Stretch rewards are great, but I'm not going to back or not back on that - I'm going to back because a) i know >G willput out a good product (even if I wasn't a playtester, a good game is a good game, and I will always look into that) and b) its a game that looks like it will be fun - even more so because im a playtester sure, but again - I trust >g. I don't need a fancy box or bigger mini's. I just need a game I can take to Game night with my buddies and play and have a couple hours of good time every couple weeks with it.
Do I expect it to be on the level of Sentinels for my group? (That is, 1-2 games every night we get together, pretty much) No. But do i expect it to be worth the 40 bucks + shipping to enjoy? I sure do. I sure do.
So I don't understand these people who are pulling out because they wont get an upgradedbox or bigger mini's or who arent pledging because /stretch/ rewards arent cool enough. Pledge for the product, not the free swag.
sides the game is funded. I don't forsee 15K dollars dissapearing from itin the last 70 hours.
There is nothing I can say that Lynkfox has not already said. That. So much that.
+1 to Lynkfox. My sentiments exactly.
lynkfox +1
Just wanted to add a couple more points. A a consumer, how would you feel if you have to buy a $50 game just to get one promo card for a game you love. It might be a great business plan, but I wouldn't think to highly of the company after that.
Most people not backing say they aren't backing because: 1) It will be cheaper at retail. 2) They are waiting for REVIEWS. As a consumer can you blame anybody for either of these. Short of GtG sending someone a preview copy (which I don't think will happen), there is no way to counter these with a KS campaign. KS is not a preorder system, it is a way to support people you believe in to help start their project. GtG has enough people to help get this started, everyone else is waiting for the actual game.
Has there been ANY study that shows KS INCREASES overall sales? I haven't seen one. What I have seen is that there are a lot of people waiting for the game to hit the stores (the marketing aspect worked great). GtG already said that they don't make much money thorugh the KS. If they would sell X games anyways, wouldn't it be better for the company (and us) to do it AFTER the KS campaign.
The only thing lost through not having the big number on KS is OUR free stuff. Since the entire point was to help out GtG, I don't really see why that matters.
There absolutely is a monetary loss. I would have easily paid 150 for GSF, minis, and a complete set of sentinels promos since I was late to the dance.
By doing so I would be giving >g 70 more dollars than I will now at retail (or possibly even more a now ill buy the game then decide if I want the minis)
That's why the whole "I want GSF to stand on its own merits" is silly at best, and hubris at worse.
Ultimately the marketplace is where the game will succeed and fail on its own merits. Kick starter is a fundraising campaign. And part of fund raising is about generating money, ideally by getting people to spend MORE money than they normally would because they love a product or company.
Because not a lot of people know the product, they are leveraging the company name. And to not leverage the property that put them on the map is bad business. Both for fans and for them.
you asked if I would spend 50 bucks to get a game and a promo for another game? Yes. Yes I would, because not only am I supporting a creator that I like, but it's te only way for me to get the damn card in the first place.
Also, to Lynx's point that >g fans are spoiled I agree. I think there is a MASSIVE sense of entitlement that all fans have all the promos or can attend conventions to get them. It comes up all the time, especially when people casually reference promos as solutions to problems as if everyone has them
Edit: keep in mind this KS isn't even rewarding early adopters. It's not like I can offer to pay more for new content...there is no mechanical incentive beyond 80 bucks, all the meat is predicated on stretch goals
Except >Games have publically stated that they will be releasing an "unlimited" version of the promos down the line, when Sentinels is done and all the promos are released. And there's nothing stopping you from doing exactly what I have done and printing out the versions that >Games have either uploaded themsleves or allowed fans to upload and slapping them in a sleeve/glueing them to cardboard.
And wanting to know if a game can stand on its own is not hubris or silly, it's the way to test the market when you are making a decision on how many to produce in the first print run/whether to invest time and effort into making expansions for said game. If you confuse the issue by adding in stuff from another game, how do you know what the "genuine" demand is?
I am not backing the kickstarter, several playtesters have said, "it's good, but it's not going to hit the table as much as Sentinels does" and that carries weight with me. I have not been looking at the kickstarter updates because although I like Christopher's enthuaisum about the game in all the podcasts I have heard him in, the theme of the game (and what little I know of the gameplay) just does not grab me in the same way Sentinels does; I will wait for more detailed reviews/finalised rules before deciding on whether to purchase it or not.
The reasons we are running the Kickstarter are 1) Market research, 2) spreading awareness, and 3) raising the capital to print the game. On all of these counts, it has been quite successful, and we are in a *much* better position now with GSF than we were when we initially released SotM.
1) For GSF, we won't have to work out on the fly how to market the game to people at a convention.
2) For GSF, there are now thousands of people who have heard of the game and are aware of the basic idea, as opposed to the ~50 or so who had heard of SotM when we first brought it to Gen Con.
3) For GSF, we have already raised the capital we need to print it, without having to sell any amount of Greater Than Games to an investor.
@Matchstickman
Your reasons for not backing the Kickstarter make total sense to me! The fact that you are aware of the game is awesome; it is now up to us to ensure that GSF is the best, most fun game it can be before we release it. If we do, it will be a success, and you might even buy it at some point down the road :)
I just wanted to let it be known that the most recent build of GSF is really cementing down what is great about this game. I was sketchy at first during a few of the earlier builds, but I've solidly jumped on the GSF train at this point. If your concern is that it won't be at a Sentinels level of amazing, I understand. BUT, keep in mind that we're playing a game that is very new as opposed to Sentinels, which was released after Adam and Christopher had been playing and fine-tuning it for fun. These are very different games, and they've both had a very different journey in their creation. I just wanted to be the guy to say that I think it's worth fifty bucks, and I could very easily just use the playtest documents to make my own proxied game without kicking in if I wanted to. I'm kicking the core game and the minis, and I think GSF will see slightly less use than Sentinels. It's another co-op game that you can play with your friends. That alone got my interest. I've definitely not been let down in the playtesting process.
BUT, it sounds like your reasoning is quite reasonable.
I do have faith the game is definitely interesting, despite the few times I have got to play with others.
The only part I am sad is because of the lack of funding on this Kickstarter there is a possibility there is the bigger box is not made. Which we have yet to see a prototype on if we do not make it, as it may not hold the miniatures that you get. So I am still debating if I should get the minis or just the game.
Also the fact that the Opposition ships will be the same size as Strike force ship definitely seems like a missed oppurtunity. I mean how cool to have a giant Spider/Dragon fighting against these puny ships.
I imagine if the game proves successful there might be a possibility of Opposition ship upgrades in the future (kind of how the oversized villain cards happened later for SotM). So for now I am happy the game got funded and I look forward to playing it. If it proves to be a hit I am sure all these things will materialize. If it's not a hit, well then at least they didn't spend all that effort producing oversized minis
@matchstick
I heard about the "unlimited" editions of the promos before...all the more reason to print them and monetize them
the question isn't "is the game fun or not" I think it will be, that's why I'll buy it sight unseen at release. The question is "is this game worth spending MORE than I normally would". And on that level I think the kick starter has been a failure
if you look at the backers, over half are donating at the "game+mini" level, but very few are commiting to higher spends, and that's bad fundraising particularly when they had the tools to do better.
of course the project has more eyes on it, SotM has a loyal and evangelizing fan base, an everyone is curious about "the next big thing", that should not only have driven page views, it should have driven more sales (an more money)
I'm happy the game got funded. But I think you're fooling yourself if you think this was executed in a way that maximizes exposure as well as profit
I re point out my #2 comment. they aren’t in this to get rich. If they find, produce the game, and make enough profit to start another game or start the expansions for this one, that’s all they want. at least that’s my mpression
Also not to mention their is also some people waiting for the "second edition" as what happened to first edition of Sentinels. Was also a reason several people didn't back.
Personally. I wished they were able to make the promo cards of GSF part of a $5 more program where you add $5 to get a single copy of all the promos they planned to print on GSF blank space. Then if stretch goals are reached they become 3 copies.
Or
Had the big ships as a # of Mini's backer versus a $ amount backer. Meaning if say 1000 backers were getting minis they were able to print the big minis as people are interested in them. As not having big opposition ships was also a concern.
A bit late now. Now I just wonder for thsoe people on BGG that mentioned they were backing out, whether they will affect us reaching the bigger box stretch.