Out of curiousity how many people have pledged for this project?
Is there a reason you have not pledged?
If you did pledge, are you getting the miniatures?
Questions of the KS that confuses me:
Also does anyone know what the current box will contain?
As the 100k stretch goal seems to be: "$100k: If we break this impressive level, we will have the money to upgrade the box for Galactic Strike Force, releasing the game in a larger box with plenty of space for organizing all of the components, including the promo cards, as well as the sector, Strike Force, and Opposition flagship panels. The upgraded box will even have space for the optional miniatures!"
Does this mean unless we get the enlarge box the current box would not fit future expansions?
Would this be a similar situation where the enhanced editition of SOTM was much better than the first and it was actually worth waiting for a second edition printing?
Cause this seems to be KS stretch goal that concerns me most and I believe would influence whether I should get the miniatures or not. Would hate to get the extra minis only to not have thme fit in the box. (I mean giant Opposition ships are nice, but whether the box will hold expansion seems to be something I have payed more attention too after getting the expansions for SoTM.)
I backed at the +mini level. I'm expecting the non-upgraded GSF box to be more like the original SotM box than the EE SotM box; it'll fit all the components that come with the base game (so, no minis, no promo cards), but not necessarily in a manner that allows you to actually organize the cards and panels, just store them. And it certainly won't have room for future expansions.
I think it'll be sub-optimal to not be able to store the minis in the same box as the cards, but that's not a deal-breaker for me. I want the minis anyways. I want the double-sized Opposition minis too, but it looks like that's a desire that will have to go unfulfilled. :(
Yep, pledged + minis. I imagine we'll see some additional bump as more marketting goes out and it gets closer to the end, hopefully enough for the large minis - as I really want those!
Without the 100k stretch goal what does the current box hold? (Will it hold future expansions?)
Are miniatures gonna be sold outside of KS?
Are promo cards gonna be printed with the GSF printing or separate printing, since I was told promo cards arent KS exclusive and are offered as a promo pack in the future.
Mind if you can comment on the higher stretch goals for the promo cards compared to ST KS. As I notice they seem quite high for a relatively new IP. (Just curious not saying not to.)
Is there anything that is only obtainable in KS?
Might be of your interest of the difference of opinion between BGG and here.
I am saying both sides have their merit since there has been more >G presence here. If possible if you could also comment on the other side.
This is my worry, that I probably would just hold off on getting the Miniatures if the box does not contain the space. Cause not reaching that stretch goal seems to me that this would all get fixed in the second printing and it seems it is one of the reason why people are holding off on backing this project.
Note I am in no way saying the KS is done badly or GSF is not done properly. But I was just curious as to what other people thought and the difference of opinion especially on why people are not backing is something that >G staff might be interested in looking at.
I was disappointed by the way the GSF Kickstarter has gone too, though it looks like >G is making a concerted effort to keep things simpler this time time around, even if it means leaving money on the table. In the end, of course, it's up to them how they want to conduct business. As long as GSF turns out to be a super fun game, all will be forgiven. :)
You're not leaving money on the table if you're keeping your margins up by not including a ton of conditional extras. There are no economies of scale on deck design. In many ways each marginal card is MORE difficult to produce, not less. It's thoroughly plausible to me that they could end up pockting more money in the long term by exercising moderation with thier stretch goals.
This sort of restrained strategy makes a ton of sense to me for an established-but-still-small company like >G. Just read some of the horror stories about Kickstarters that force themselves into worse games becuase they overpromised on stretch goals or incidental rewards.
Also, KS gets their cut so if nothing else they're getting more money per unit on direct sales than KS sales anyway. ;D
I'll admit, the thing I was most excited about for this Kickstarter was the ability to playtest, which wasn't offered through the KS (but I jumped on as soon it was available in the store). GSf looks fun and I look forward to playtesting, but I'm not overly excited about it. I'm also fine with moderate KS strech goals if it makes sense for GTG.
I am a bit concerned to with what will happen with the box, however. I'm not really interested in a 1st edition issue where the box does not fit any expansion content or the minis. That alone might be enough to hold off backing for me.
I trust >G to have done the math enough to know how much a stretch goal costs and to not offer it unless it will pay for itself at least, preferably generating a profit.
We got the F6 alt cards in the Shattered Timelines Kickstarter for going $20k over the base goal, and by $40k over the base goal, we'd gotten that plus oversized villain cards and a whole new 25-card villain deck (Miss Information). To compare, going $40k over the base goal with GSF gets you... two Station cards. If you can make a profit from putting out 6 alt hero cards, oversized villain cards, and a full villain deck for $40k, then you should be able to do more than 2 Station cards.
But really, the purpose of stretch goals is to generate excitement more than anything else. As long as you're not losing money on them (again, I trust >G to do the math), then you're missing out on excitement by not offering compelling goals that get people wanting to be a part of your project. Less exciting goals = less excitement.
I don't think people are wrong to be underwhelmed. The only question in my mind is whether the underwhelmation is intentional on >G's part or whether the Kickstarter was just botched. I'm inclined to think it was maybe a little of both, but more intentional than otherwise. They were obviously beat up by the success of the Shattered Timelines Kickstarter and wanted to keep things a little simpler this time. That's a perfectly acceptable business goal to prioritize this time around, even if it doesn't do much to get backer's juices flowing for your project.
I agree about the box. I want to back the game at the minis level, but hate the idea that I will need to shell out an extra $40-$50 to get a nice box a year from now. Especially when i know that I am going to be getting the next SOTM expansion this fall. If I knew we would be getting the upgraded box I would back it today at the minis level.
Stretch goals cost you money by definition. It's just a matter of whether they generate enough extra backers/buyers/buzz to make it worth it. It may be that they're a bit on the conservative side of that tradeoff with the GSF campaign, but to be fair Shattered Timelines was an epic campaign by any measure. It combined two products, and had a metric crapton of bonus stuff. Not every campaign can be that boss, and it's kind of unfair to directly compare them IMO.
I mean, I want more cool stuff for GSF just as much as anybody. I just can't find it in myself to hold it against >G or be disappointed in the campaign. I just think that it's kinda normal for an unproven game to have less excitement than a highly anticipated expansion for a successful game. I mean, the game looks fun to and it's definitely funded. So either way, I'm going to get to play it. I've seen projects I'm really excited for fail to fund or just narrowly fund at last minute. We're halfway through and we're certain we're getting a game. That's a win. Maybe it's not a 19-minute nexus rollover like the ST campaign, but it's a far cry from the Channel A campaign, which got $10,569 of its $10,000 goal and looked for all the world like it wasn't going to make it the day before it closed.
I think it was easier to add bonus alt heroes and villains to SotM because the mechanics and story arc were all worked out by the time the expansions were kickstarted, so it was easier to put out more material that they knew would work with the story and the game system. I think it might be hard to do so for a game that is still being fleshed out to some degree.
That being said though, I do agree that if the intent was to keep it smaller and simpler then the stretch goals triggers should have been scaled down to reflect that. Even ST which was their most successful Kickstarter (and due in no small part to their sweet stretch goals) only made it $185 (and a lot of that due to the appeal of the Vengeance addition at the $150 mark). So to put the only really exciting stretch goal at $150 from the start seems a bit strange.
The box issue is another concern as well. In their release of the Enhanced Edition the larger box was presented as a solution to the storage problem caused by having a box that was too small to begin with. To now release a new game with what could potentially be the same problem, while offering a solution to that problem as a stretch goal or a future upgrade does raise some questions.
Now, I don't know the details of why this decisions or what the logic is for them, and I am willing to give GTG the benefit of the doubt and trust there are perfectly good reasons for everything (they haven't let me down yet with their games), but if I were looking at this as a new backer, I would probably still be holding back on this or may have passed on it altogether by now.
Without the 100k stretch goal what does the current box hold? (Will it hold future expansions?)
It is *much* better than the original SotM box - no matter what, the GSF box will be at least as good as the Enhanced Edition box, which means that it will hold future expansions. The $100k goal will allow us to increase the size to be notably larger than the Enhanced Edition box, and include a larger area to better hold panels and miniatures, etc.
Are miniatures gonna be sold outside of KS?
Yes.
Are promo cards gonna be printed with the GSF printing or separate printing, since I was told promo cards arent KS exclusive and are offered as a promo pack in the future.
They are going to be printed with the GSF printing the same way that we print mini-expansions for SotM.
Mind if you can comment on the higher stretch goals for the promo cards compared to ST KS. As I notice they seem quite high for a relatively new IP. (Just curious not saying not to.)
With the ST Kickstarter, we were a bit too ambitions with the stretch rewards. We wound up losing quite a bit of money on that Kickstarter even though it funded really well. With this Kickstarter, we are trying to experiment with our various options in terms of stretch goal offerings, with the goal of at least not *losing* money on Kickstarter campaigns. This lets us gain more and more ranks in our "Manage Kickstarter" skill - just think how good we'll be at it in [secret times] when we launch a Kickstarter for the [redacted] [also secret] game!
Is there anything that is only obtainable in KS?
The extra promo card pack is free via Kickstarter, but will cost money later. The art prints are only obtainable in KS (or at conventions). So far, those are the only KS exclusives.
I agree with your decision to be cautious. It seems to me that a lot of companies are doing more harm then good to their bottom line with crazy stretch goals.
Thanks for the answers on the box, it really alleviated my major concern. If I might offer a suggestion, clarifying that on the KS page would be good for those folks skepitical that there might be a GSF Enhanced Edition coming out in 18 months
We wound up losing quite a bit of money on that Kickstarter even though it funded really well.
That changes the calculus quite a bit, obviously. Perhaps this info should have been part of a Kickstarter update at some point, because I think people's (including my) assumptions are that the ST Kickstarter was a huge success from all perspectives and they can't understand why the GSF Kickstarter is so vanilla compared to the fantastic double-decker sundae they were just served. We all know that Kickstarters are about managing expectations as much as anything else.
(edit: someone made this point before I hit "save" on my post :) Also, that info about the box needs to make it into a Kickstarter update. I think most people have the same expectation I had, that the GSF base box will be like the SotM original box. If we can remove that misunderstanding, I think you'll see more people able to get over their fear of buyer's remorse.
I find myself in an odd position here, in that I've been defending the way GtG have been handling the Kickstarter on the other thread, but I haven't personally backed it, because I'm not sure I'll be able to afford it, whereas I can be reasonably sure of getting it for Christmas, and I feel like I can live without the promo Station cards, whereas I probably wouldn't feel that way about another Opposition or another Strike Force race.
Sorry to hear you lost money on the KS, but I believe you gained a lot more popularity for SOTM for that. As so far I have persuaded 2 other persons to get all expansions and game from just 2-3 plays. Looking forward to Vengeance.
Sorry for the bombardment of question, I was just curious as seeing the slower pace and the box is sort of the determining factor for a lot since people have heard of SOTM first box experience.
If you would announce info on the box I am glad people would be less likely to wait on sideline.
Also I believe this was mentioned in ST kickstarter. What is the retail price of GSF?
Cause I just remembered since you are using the same delivery system as ST KS campaign?
Is everyone also getting charged $10 for delivery (for in states) cause someone brought up a good point that GSF is more expensive than SOTM. Unless this is the planned course.
Other questions regarding: Are miniatures planned for future expansions of GSF?
Not sure if its possible, but is it possible for you to take your "funds" you received for playtesting you got as a side bonus and boost the stretch goal? I mean if it loses you money it would be bad, but I feel if you did this you could give KS people some hope for a bigger box so they are more likely to add the mini's :)
But I think heres whats interesting of them adding a station card, as this means it could potentially be a card you can add to every game.
Though it seems the rule with promo station cards seem to be you only choose 90 cards. So this gives you some varierty where your 90 cards are not always guaranteed. Also seeing as a new Strike Force is 8 cards, versus a promo card in SOTM. I can see this as why that might be why they went for station cards instead.
Though I got to agree the lowered amount of incentive for getting in on this KS.
Where as a new opposition might be more costly to produce, but that might be the 200k stretch goal. I bet it must be a Thorian Opposition
Or I am not sure how this would work, but lets say if X backers got the miniature level then >G would upgrade the opposition ships to 60mm. (Assumming having more people order the minis mean lowering production cost might be a different way to approach than to have it at a certain $ amount.)
Cause I am sure having giant Opposition ship would look awesome on the board.
With that in mind, we have decided to make Playtesting Access available through our web store for the duration of the Kickstarter campaign. It is still $40, the same price it has always been, but this way you'll get access much more quickly after you buy in. We realize that the down side of this method is that those of you who opt to buy playtesting access won't contribute to the Kickstarter totals. However, we feel that the up sides of getting more playtesters working on the game right away outweighs that negative, and, if we happen to get a truly massive number of new Playtesters, we'll factor that into the Kickstarter and adjust the stretch reward levels accordingly!
Now that I know the box will fit all the figures and the game I backed at the +minis level. The KS page really makes it seem like everything won't fit in the box unless the stretch goal is hit. You should probably make it clear that everything will. Not everyone will come to these boards to hunt down that info. Having a delux box would be great, but having a usable storage box is a must. I couldn't imagine that you would let the box be a problem after the issues you had previously, but that was what I was getting form the verbiage on the KS page.
