Gloomweaver variant

There has already been some wonderful discussions on giving Gloomweaver a little less gloom and a little more doom.  I played a game last night where we wanted to make a very straight forward change that would keep things simple and mostly unchanged but would work nicely.  With that in mind we made just one simple change:

We took the three relics, shuffled them and put them under his card.  At the end of his turn he put one relic into play. 

This seemed to work pretty well.  It was simple and didn't change much for the cards.  We actually played that when you killed one it went under him and could come back out but decided after that we didn't like that and it would be better to trash as normal. 

With this setup he flips on the fourth turn unless you can kill one relic by then.  Even if you do an ill timed Vast Following could bring it back.

 

We ended up winning but it was close.  We did waste a lot of effort having never bothered to look at his flipped side to see what it was like we were quite surprised when he flipped and regained 40 hp.  So it was a close game but we were not super efficient.  Then again we didn't play the advanced mode either.  It seemed like this simple change may not have made him super difficult, but at least made him a moderate villain.

I have played the version that Spiff has on his site and it's good, but I now think that it doesn't help him flip more often. I agree with you that making him flip more often is the way to fix him, but I'm not sure I like your idea. He will flip turn 4 unless you kill a relic by then. However, if you do then he is going to have a hard time getting it back. I know he has Vast Following, but there is only 2 or 3 of them and he has to be lucky enough for the relic to be one of the H cards and even then you have a round to kill another one.

Here's the idea I have:

At the start of the game put all his zombies in the trash. Then search his deck for one copy of each of the three cultist types and put those in play. Shuffle his deck.

Gloomweaver flips at the END of his turn if he has 3 relics in play.

The big change is this: Gloomweaver's Ophidia, the Deceiver now has 25Hp and has the keyword Relic.

The heroes still win if there are 3 relics in the villain trash.

With 4 relics in his deck he now can lose one and still have a chance to flip. Also he is more likely to find 3 even if one is buried. Finally, since he flips at the end of his turn he is always threatening to flip every turn the heroes leave 2 in play.

The cultists in play at the beginning make him a hit harder than just plain old zombies. Also it means that his deck starts with only 17 cards in it instead of 20 so he is more likely to get relics. However, I'm not married to the cultist thing. The 4 relic idea is the main one that I think would boost him. It bumps him from easy to medium. The cultist start is to bump him from medium to hard (like an elder god should be)

I'm a fan of him flipping at the End of his turn.  Check out my own Gloomweaver varient for another take :)  https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/my-gloomweaver-fix-3541

Octavian,

I remember your variant, but I didn't comment on it when I read it because I was still working through my ideas. I'm glad you agree that he needs to be better at threatening to flip. Doesn't removing the pins mean that they never get played unless he flips?

My main problem with your Vast Following suggestion is Cursed Acolyte. In a 5 player game the first time he comes into play he deals all heroes 3 and 3 damage. Then if he dies and your Vast Following goes off it pretty much guarantees (since 5 cards will come out of the trash) that he'll come back and do another 3 and 3. That's 12 damage to all heroes from 2 cards not to mention the other 4 cards that will enter play from the Vast Following plus the next card in the deck. I think if you want to make Vast Following a guaranteed resurrection it should be H-2 cards come back.

Yes, the pins don't get played unless he flips in my variant.  I find the pins don't do much as is and they dilute Gloomweaver's deck, making it less likely that his relics come into play together.  Further, Gloomweaver's flip side is still not that threatening as is because there aren't usually many pins in play anyways.  Removing them makes his deck smaller, increasing the time pressure on the Heroes, and having them all come out as a single burst makes Gloomweaver's flip side a real threat.

A 5 player game is a real challenge.   But Heroes have plenty of tricks to get around Cursed Acolyte's damage.  And how many other real threats are there?  Gloomweaver is supposed to be a difficulty rating 3 - so I'm okay with that.

I'm not in favor of reducing Vast Following's effectiveness to H-2 because then Gloomweaver becomes a pushover again in 3 player games.  Perhaps removing the H and making it a straight 3 regardless of number of heroes may work better.