I can Do That, Too, Desperate Prey and how they interact

Other Games SotM Game Engine
1

Encountered this recently and discussion occurred.

Guise used I Can Do That, Too to copy Depserate Prey. He played a card and became a crocodile because rawr.

On the Naturalist's turn, who was also a Crocodile, he played Feral Fury.

Naturalist applied both effects, then it was Guise's turn. However, the effects on the card reference the Naturalist explicitly as the source of the damage. As Desperate Prey doesn't mention the hero, we ruled that the Naturalist did the damage as there was nothing to override it.

This later also allowed Guise to troll the Naturalist with Indomitable Force.

What are other people's views of this interaction?

2

Unless Guise is playing the card with that icon  I don't believe that he should activate any affects on a one-shot played by the Naturalist.  In regards to Indomitable Force unless Guise has copied t through Uh,Yeah, I'm That Guy! and then uses I Can Do That Too! again to become a rhino he wouldn't get the added ability of redirecting the damage.  

3

Hmmm.

I'm of the opinion that just because Guise is an [animal] doesn't mean he gets to activate the effects on other people's cards. I think Desperate Prey is a null power for him (though forcing the redirect to The Naturalist when he wasn't in Rhino form is good shenanigans, if not how I would play it).

I have nothing to back this up.

4

Except Desperate Prey says "Until the end of your next turn, you may activate that icon's effects." It doesn't say anything about the card you activate having to be yours. In the same way ICDTT can copy the Arent Adept and activate a performance even if Guise hasn't copied any. Why would this be different?

5

Because that is the call I would make.

Again, I have nothing to back this up.

6

Well Vengeance is coming up in the video game so a decision will have to be made since Guise would be capable of copying the forms through Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy!

7

Guise doesn't get healed if he copies Master of Magic and Nightmist plays a spell card, according to the app.

8

Well, that one's due to the wording being "Whenever you play a Spell card", which Guise can't do.

9

So if Guise uses Desperate Prey to activate Rhino effects, and then the Naturalist (who is not activating Rhino effects) plays Threatening Stomp or something, does the Rhino clause activate?

10

Gung-Ho says one player may use a power now.  It doesn't say you can only use powers in your area.

Prejudice is spceifically by Pride, and so you can use it even if it is in another play area.  Similarly Ammo cards say "play next to a gun card"  That gun card doesn't have to be in your play area.

The hard part is trying to figure out which category the symobl effects will fall into.

This isn't isolated to this promo though, all Guise has to do is use "Uh yeah" to gain a form card's "you may activate" text.

 

If it works then this relationship is broken, because Guise would be able to abuse Bestial Shift at the same time that Naturalist is.  Example that we actually did before deciding not to let it work like this at all.

Guise has Uh Yeah copying Naturalist, Naturalist has Gazelle in play.

Naturalist plays bestial shift.  Guise goes first, naturalist regains 3, Guise uses Gazelle's power to also regain 3.  Naturalist then regains 3 and uses his innate power to pull out Crocodile.

Guise now actiates BS's Croc text, naturalist deals something 4 damage, Guise uses Tough choices, playing Best card ever and Look what I found to deal a total of 10 damage (croc boosting) then Naturalist goes, dealing something 4 damage and using Croc's power to deal 3 damage.

Naturalist regained 6hp, Guise regained 4, Naturalist dealt 11 damage and Guise dealt 10, 4 of which were directly because of this combo (the rest from his 2 cards played).

 

I expect the answer to be that it doesn't apply to effects in other play areas, because that is the most balanced, but the Video Game rulings aren't all falling in line with balance so who knows?

11

At the least for consistentcy sake using Uh,Yeah, I'm That Guy to copy the Naturalist will result in his Form card in play being destroyed unless Fixed Point is out.

12

That's true, and playing a form with Uh, Yeah active should force one of the two to be destroyed.

13

I'd play it this way as well Pwatson. I'm more inclined toward your argument.

14

Woah, hey, phantaskippy, what’s with your comment about Gung-Ho?

15

I'm ointing out that some effects give open ended permission, that isn't open ended.  Gung-Ho says you can use a power, and it doesn't limit you to powers in your play area, yet you are limited.

My point is that we have examples of effects that by wording do not restrict you to cards in your area, but in reality are still restricted, just like we have examples of effects that are not restricted in wording or effect.

So this really could go either way.