Incapacitating Yourself

Old Rules & Gameplay Boards Sentinel Tactics Rules [Closed]
#1

I received the following questions via email, and was not sure if they had been asked or answered here, so I thought I'd cross-post.

Q: If you use an ability that uses your health, what happens when you use the lasts health point? Does your appointment get a point for the endcap? Do you get to finish the action?

A: When you lose your last point of health, you are incapacitated, your turn ends, and the opposing team gets a point. If there are other activities included in the action that require you to not be incapacitated, such as resolving an attack, you do not get to complete them. However, if there are actions that happen in spite of or as a consequence of your incapacitation, you can complete those. For example, The Visionary can make her death attack upon being incapacitated this way, and Tachyon can immediately stand up and take another turn if she was incapacitated as a result of Pushing the Limits.

#2

If Tachyon Pushes the Limits at 1 health, she gets incapped, then stands up again at full health and takes another turn, albiet with 1 card. Would the other team, in a tournament setting, get a score for that incap? 

If not, well, thats a tactic I seem a lot of Tachyon players using to keep themselves out of the danger zone healthwise.

#3
#4

This looks fun and entertaining.

#5

That isn't a bad strategy with the cost, better than being hamstrung by health or waiting around to be an easy incap.  You can take a full turn, then incap yourself, stand up and take another turn.

Situational, yes, but really good.

#6

If Tachyon stood back up and ran through a hazard that incapped her again, would the opposing team get a second victory point?

In this example, she's kind of in a zombie zone where she's incapped but she's still running around, which is weird.  After she resolves her second turn, does she drop dead right where she ends or do you move her back to where she was originally incapped?  If the attack which incapped her had over-damage, would it go like this:

incap, stand up, take second turn, move back to incap spot, then apply overage push

or

incap, apply overage push, stand up in the new spot she was pushed to, then take second turn (then move back to the spot she was pushed to?)

#7

This is not quite as strange as you think.

Two incaps wouldn't make Tachy blink

There's no zombie runs

(unless Gloomweaver comes)

It's only the wait time that'll shrink

 

The rules for incapacitation are simple:  A hero that reaches zero health is incapacitated, and recovers at the start of his or her next turn.  The only difference between Tachyon while Pushing the Limits and everyone else is that her next turn comes immediately after the turn where she is incapped, instead of having to wait for everyone else to go first.  No zombie zone, a second incap would count as a second point, and she won't drop dead again.

 

I haven't actually played Tactics though, so maybe I'm missing something.

#8

Nope.  That's how I saw it as well.

#9

since she started a new turn she would stand up properly, just like any other turn after she was incapacitated.

#10

Spiff, I don't think I'm entirely clear on what you are asking. There are two things going on here that are true and cover this situation (and many others).

1) If a character loses their last point of health for whatever reason (except for Citizen Dawn's card the specifically says it does not result in points), they are immediatly in capacitated and the other team gets a point.

2) If Tachyon uses Pushing the Limits, her next turn follows immediately after the turn in which she does so instead of waiting for her turn order to come back around in the round order.

So, if Tachyon is at 1 health and using Pushing the Limits, she is immediately incapacitated where she is standing, and the other team scores 1 point. Pushing the Limits cannot result in overkill Push for a number of reasons, not least of which is because it only costs 1 health.

Immediately after being incapacitated and the other team scoring, Tachyon takes her next turn. She stands back up, regains her full health, and may play a power card during the Power Up phase. If she then opts to move through a hazard space and takes enough damage to be killed, she is incapacitated in that space and the other team scores a point. If there was overkill, she is pushed.

Note that there is absolutely nothing special about an extra "Pushing the Limits" turn except that it immediately follows a previous Tachyon turn.

#11

That was the part I was overlooking.  I was viewing the second turn as an extension of the current turn rather than a whole new turn that just happened to be adjacent to the first one.  I get it now.

#12

I recently heard about this Tachyon interaction, and I'm still confused about it.  Since it relates directly to this thread, it makes the most sense to ask here.

 

Per the main rulebook under "Incapacitation" pg 5: When going to zero health you:

a. Become incapacitated

b. Loose all tokens

c. Return power cards to your hand

d. Remove the move value die from the character card

e. Token flipped to incap side

f. Return used one-shots to hand

g. Resolve overkill push if any

 

I understand Visionary's Brain Burn - her character card specifically states that 'When Visionary would be incapacitated, she first makes the following attack.' This would allow Visionary to use any tokens she had on her card, since she pauses the sequence above before step a.

 

Tachyon's Pusing the Limits doesn't appear to have wording that would interrupt the sequence, so I don't understand how she gets around the FAQ pg1 heading "You pay the costs before the ability activates."  By what I see here, Tachyon would spend her last health to pay the cost of PtL, go to zero health, go through the incapacitation steps above (loosing her Pusing the Limits card in step c.), then attempts to activate the PtL ability - which she can't, since she doesn't have that card in play anymore.

 

Am I not seeing something about Tachyon's card or not understanding the incap rules correctly, or is this just a situation where Push the Limits was intended to work that way, and might need a slight re-wording to mention that the ability activates even if Tachyon incaps herself by using it?

#13

I think it's because the ability granted by Push The Limit's doesn't really have any "timing" to it (and if it is, it occurs at the very end of your turn, after you resolve the rest of your incapped steps). It's not like Brain Burn where there would be an order and timing of when you'd resolve the attack. That's how I see it anyway.

#14

Incapped characters can't make attacks, but they can take a turn.

So even when she incaps herself she can gain the benefit because nothing is there to stop her from taking a new turn.

With Thermal or Combustion they incap and can no longer make attacks, so nothing more happens.

#15

I still don't see how it gets around paying the cost BEFORE the ability activates per the FAQ.  By paying the cost and going to health 0, Tachyon goes through the incap steps, one of which is loosing her active power cards.  If by paying the cost the ability 'sticks,' I don't see why health cost attacks don't activate.

#16

The FAQ is still correct. You do pay the cost of 1 health before the ability activates. That is true.

The disconnect you have here is timing.

-AbZero pays 1 health to go down to 0 to make an attack. When AbZero tries to make the attack, you have to note that at 0 health, an incapped character nessesarily can't make an attack, so no attack happens and you go through the steps of removing everything.

-Tachyon pays 1 health to go down to 0 to trigger Pushing The Limits. You payed the cost, and get the effect. Now you go through the steps of being incapped.

The thing is, Pushing the Limits doesn't care if you are incapped in the same way that trying to make an attack cares. My answer my not be official, but thats how you can rationalize the rulings and make them jive with the FAQ.

#17

Foote is right on one count, the big thing is Tactics timing and SotM timing are totally different.  You pay the cost, and are both incapacitated and gain a second turn.  No resolving them one at a time, both happen.

Just like Synaptic Interruption in Tactics can result in both Tachyon and her attacker being incapped.

Foote is wrong that the effect happens between taking damage and being incapped.  (At least his wording lends itself to that conclusion) because if that were true AZ could use his last health for Thermal Shockwave, attack then incap.  

#18

Meh. Potato - potato. The end result is the same.

#19

French fries?

#20

Mashed!