Issue with how Health is calculated

Games Sentinel Comics RPG
1

So, I've been building some characters I really like from other comic universes, and in some aspects I'm delighted with how refreshing it is to have such a new system, but some specific points are driving me nuts. One of them is the Health calculation: 8 + d8 roll (4) + biggest Athletic Power or Mental Quality + Red Zone Die. Man. I have several problems with this. I'll try to list them - and be civil all the while xD

1) Power and Quality dice size are dictated by Background and Power Source, and not Archetype. Witch leads to certain Backgrounds/Power Sources to generate inherently tougher heroes, while others will lead to more frail ones. This in itself wouldn’t be a problem, except that the Archetype plays no role in that whatsoever. So Physical Powerhouses, Form-Changers and Close Quarters Combatants, typically tough guys, get nothing over Sorcerors or Marksmen, typically more frail heroes. And I'm talking not only in terms of mechanics: thematically, Strong Guys, Martial Artists and Shapeshifters are indeed tough (either because they're resilient or agile), being able to take a lot of punishment/aggression and often being the last ones to fall in comics. That simply doesn't apply here. So if I want to create a Colossus or Superman I'll have to manipulate their origins so they were cursed or from a different dimension, rather than mutants or aliens, because that's what's going to make them tougher.

2) Red Zone Die is a direct reflect of Personality. It seems really bad to me that some personalities will be inherently tougher, while others more frail. I can't make a Tough Guy who's Cheerful (such as Alpha Flight's Puck or X-factor’s Strong Guy), or Distant, or Arrogant, without losing some good 20% Health? Rather, I'd have to make them Nurturing or Naive... That sounds so constricting in terms of character design!!

3) Mental Qualities affecting Health so hard generates some oddities. I mean, RPGs are supposed to be thematic, this one especially, so I just don't understand why have Creativity should affect Health - at least not why it is as important as Physical Qualities or Athletic Powers. I do get that in a game where "damage" can come from a variety of sources, such as being threatened, terrified or deceived, Mental Qualities should matter. But the reality of the outcome I've been getting is often that characters that were supposed to be tougher (overall) end up being more frail than others that are thematically less tough - such as artists or inventors. Also: if Mental Qualities affect Health (being creative or convict makes you more durable), why don't Intellectual powers help them (surely having lighting-fast reflexes should help you stay alive!).

Disclaimer: I do understand that this game / game creation process can be easily manipulated in order to get mechanically "better" characters. That's not the issue for me. Also, I don't mind having a little less HP or slightly lower dice if that fits my characters design. What I'm trying to say is, I'm not trying to manipulate the rules to make a Doctor Strange with as high a Health as possible. Rather, I just want my Colossus, theTall-Steel-Skinned-Powerhouse to have higher Health than Forge the Inventor. I want to be able to make my Muscles-of-Stone have the Background, Power Source and Personality I want, without that having a massive impact of how tough he is. I want, in turn, that the fact that he is a Physical Powerhouse and Has high Vitality and Strangth influences at least a little (ideally a lot) his durability (OK, the damage reduction ability is nice, but for me it's not thematically enough).

Anyway, just venting because of two recent characters which ended up with completely opposite Healths than I had intended. Because of their storylines and personalities, not their actual powers and role in the team. That seems odd to me. Also, I'll restate that I am enjoying a lot the system so far, I'd just like to share thoughts and hear from you guys. Thanks for hearing me out.

[edit] Just thought of a better way of expressing my insatisfaction here. I think. The game designers chose to use Health to meaure durability (in one form or another). They needn't have. They could have used a "Personal Status" system, with three green levels, two yellow ones and two red ones, for example. They didn't, they used Health - and used numbers to represent it no less. AND made it variable - for all I care, all Heroes could simply start with the same Health. So as much as Abilities and Powers might thematically represent durability to some extend, the system poses a (numeric) stat which represents some conceptual aspect of the character. And my complaint is, that stat and what it represents is the result of factors that shouldn't conceptually affect it as much, while other aspects (powers, physical qualities, archetype) don't influence it at all.

2

At least to me health is not important to dictating what kind of character you have.  It can be nice having higher numbers but it also means as you take damage you are waiting longer to get into other zones to use additional abilities without the scena tracker having advanced.   

3

Interesting point. Still, “Health” is supposed to represent something. What’s it? Does it get calculated appropriately according to what it is supposed to represent? Those are my questions really.

4

Going off what I mentioned, I’d say different levels of health corresponding to different zones seems more like a reflection of how long it takes until you are willing to just let loose with your abilities.  A physical or mental fatigue that you know you will do whatever is in your power to try to end a conflict.  

5

Well, I guess that does help. I really don't want to sound as if I'm plain deflecting your arguments. Seeing things as you said makes it more acceptable for me, but still I have some issues with the way things are now.

Maybe if the game called the stat "Resilience" and actually described it as: "How much aggression you can take before you get close to your limits, unleash your potential and eventually fall". Followed by an explanation such as "characters with high Resilence will last longer overall before they fall, and will also spend longer in each Zone; on the down size, they also take longer to become desperate and unleash their true potential. While characters with lower Resilience will take much less before they reach their limit, and will fall much quicker; on the upside, they need very little to give all they have in the fight." It would then be nice that Personalities with higher Red Die were the ones that tended to the more resilient heroes.

Apart from that explanation, it still bugs me then that Physical Powers help in that stat then - because Physical Power are much more relatable to true endurance, and not taking less or more to unleash your potential.

I don't know... though your way of seeing things does make it all more digestable, for now it seems, at least for me, that the 'Health' concept is all over the place and seems rather random and arbitrary, not really coming from anywhere meaningful, neither representing anything accurately. It feels just like a random stat that comes from random places and that does not represent anything really tangible about my character.

6

At least as far as the personalities goes, I actually think it's very well balanced.  In addition to the things previous posters have mentioned (You can get to Yellow and Red quicker) you also get a higher Green status die, which can make for a *very* strong opening round or two, while your tankier teammates are doing just that little bit worse with their stuff.

Additionally, almost all Power Sources and Archetypes can grant access to Athletic powers, so if your goal is high health you'll have several chances throughout the process to assign a high die type there.

7

I can see that. Thing is, I'm not really talking about balance, I'm talking about concept. Maybe actually playing the game will open my eyes to something I fail to see now. But at the moment the whole idea of the stat and how it is calculated feels very much arbitrary, and I'd bet most players used to other systems will feel similarly.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the answers. I appreciate being able to discuss with people who are also excited about the game. 

8

I know that for me, I have to play the game first, with the pre made characters before I was able to understand HOW character creation made sense. So, as I get any new player into my group, I have them play one of the pre-mades to get an understanding of how the system works. Then we can make a character with them. Also, I am with my players the whole way thorugh the process helping guide out there character and get the results there looking for all the while mainting there background and not changing it.