Mr. Fixer's use of Strike on Adept's turn

Other Games SotM Game Engine
1

So I had a thought around Mr. Fixer's use of Strike, stemming from a post by phantaskippy on the SotM Weekend thread:

 So on Adept's turn

  1. Adept allowed Fixer to use Overdrive, which says Fixer can use Strike twice this turn.
  2. Fixer uses Strike twice.
  3. Adept allows Fixer to play a card.
  4. Fixer plays Salvage yard
  5. Salvage Yard allows Fixer to get an Overdrive from trash and play it.
  6. Overdrive says Fixer can use Strike twice this turn.
So, if I'm reading that correctly, Fixer's already used Strike twice this turn, so he can't use it again, right? :confused:

Wanted to see if I was off on my understanding of that, but didn't want to coop the other thread… :blush:  (And my apologies for trying to poke a hole in your game, phantaskippy - nothing personal! :slightly_smiling_face: )

2

Hate to undercut phantaskippy's awesomeness, but I believe you are correct.  By the same token that Overdrive can give you two strikes during an incapacitated hero's "one player may play a card now" turn, or on his own turn even after he fires a Rod of Anubis or uses The Talisman...all of these work because they set "available powers for Strike" equal to 2, and setting it equal to 2 a second time wouldn't give you two more.  Fixer is from the same set as Expatriette, and I believe it's been confirmed that if Expat uses Load to play Unload and get extra powers, her earlier use of Load counts toward the total; this supports the same view that you get a running "available powers" total, and that Overdirve redefines that number rather than incrementing it.

3

Yeah, I agree.  Strike's already been used in Step 2, so can't be used again in Step 6.

4

I have been informed by a person who has been informed by a person who has been informed by Greater than Games that Overdrive is to be played such that it allows 'Strike' to be used twice immediately, without disqualifying 'Strike' from being used as a power.  Granted, I haven't confirmed the chain to know this is completely true, but, if so with the reprint, it would simplify these matters (and make Mister Fixer that much better).

5

Really? Wow. I suppose if the reprint of Rook City changes Overdrive to say "Mr. Fixer can use Strike twice right now." or something like that, yeah, that would be pretty shiny, and clean up some things.

But… That's a different interpretation than we've had to date, right? I don't want to go on information from a significantly long chain of communications. :wink:  Hopefully we'll get confirmation of a reprint change or official errata to back that up.

6

this actually raises some larger questions.

I've been playing it as each instance of Overdrive grants you two uses of Strike, and the immediate use of your power phase to do so.

 

the reason is because if the card is allowing you to use the Strike Power twice (on your play phase) it raises these questions:

 

Do you then have a power phase where you can't actually do anything (since you've already used that power during the play phase)? 

What if you are under the effects of a multiple card play environment (such as time flies)- could you overdrive twice? 

 

To avoid headeaches (and because I really like Mr fixer), I prefer to give myself the most flexibility with his cards.  so I'd say whenever you play an overdrive, you enter a power phase where you can strike twice...regardless of how many overdrives you've used on the same turn.

7

Allowing Strike to be used even if it's already been used that turn would be a pretty significant departure from the normal rules of gameplay, so you'd think it would be called out explicitly, as in "You may use Mr. Fixer's Strike power twice right now, even if it had been used previously this turn."  Without that additional bit, I don't see any reason you'd be able to do that.

8

Thats the thing, though.  Its already a departure in several critical areas.

1. it allows you to use the same power multiple times.

2. It allows you to use the power at times when you don't have a power phase (as in you can play it out of turn and essentially use 2 powers by playing a card)

So what IS happening- thats my question.  Is it a card that allows you to access your power phase?  If not, what happens during your power phase?

Could you play overdrive when you were forbidden from using powers?

Does it grant the ability OF strike (IE, the text written on the power, with all applicible modifications and enhancements granted by tools/styles/environments) without actually USING strike?

9

You can of course play it when you cannot use powers, as long as playing cards are not being prevented as well. However you will not be able to use any powers, because cannot trumps can.

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/41233#comment-41233

 

Edit: Also to toss in, I am in the camp that Strike can only be used twice in a single turn, no matter how many Overdrives have been played. This is solely based on the wording of the card.

10

There are numerous effects which allow you to do things (i.e. play a card, use a power, draw a card) outside of the relevant phase. I'm not sure what having access to a power phase means.

My interpretation of Overdrive, as it is written, is that whatever phase of whatever turn you happen to be in, you can use the Strike power twice that turn. Repercurssions of this would be as follows:

  • If it happens to be your (Mr. Fixer's) turn and you get a power use anyway, you can use the Strike power two total times on your turn.
  • If it is your turn and you have a relic that grants you a power other than Strike, you can use the relic power (this is the one power granted by your power phase) and then still use Strike two times (two Strikes in this turn, granted by Overdrive).
  • If you are prevented from using Powers you cannot use Strike, as it is a power.
  • If you manage to play Overdrive twice in the same turn (yours or someone else's), the second Overdrive has no effect as it doesn't change the benefit conferred by playing the first Overdrive (you can use Strike twice this turn - not twice more).

The only thing about this card that confuses me is that it doesn't say -when- you can use the power. For example, if you are Mr. Fixer and you play Overdrive during your play phase, can you skip your Power phase, draw a card during your Draw phase, and then use Strike twice during your End phase?

11

The only thing about this card that confuses me is that it doesn't say -when- you can use the power. For example, if you are Mr. Fixer and you play Overdrive during your play phase, can you skip your Power phase, draw a card during your Draw phase, and then use Strike twice during your End phase?

Ooh, that's a good question

12

As much as I really want to disagree here, I do not think that I can. It does not say "You may use Strike an additional 2 times this turn". Just that you may use it twice on whatever turn the card was played. Keep in mind that under normal rules, a card's power may only be used once per turn (even if its not your turn). Overdrive extends that to 2 uses per turn. I believe that is the intent.

13

I'm going to weigh in against my action that kicked this thread off and say I was not allowed the 3d or 4th use of strike that turn.

Playing Overdrive again would of course grant me the right to use Strike twice during that turn, which I had already done.

The only thing about this card that confuses me is that it doesn't say -when- you can use the power. For example, if you are Mr. Fixer and you play Overdrive during your play phase, can you skip your Power phase, draw a card during your Draw phase, and then use Strike twice during your End phase?

Yes.  You get to use strike twice during that turn, at any point in that turn you can use them.

In fact if Adept lets you play overdrive, you can wait until he finishes his power chains (possibly boosting your damage, or even play a second card, like Bloody Knuckles or a tool or style) and then before his turn ends use strike twice.

It may be good to get an official ruling on that, but there is no limitation as to when you get to use it.  I generally resolve it as soon as it is played, just for bookkeeping sake, but there is no reason to believe that it must be done that way.

 

I didn't think about it at the time because I was rolling late at night and had honestly never faced that situation, and without analyzing thought "Whoa, I could play Salvage yard and that would let me play overdrive again bfore knuckles wears off, wee!!"

Oh well, doing it again I would have had Expat play unload then, and the difference would have evened out pretty close.

 

Lastly, while we talk about a "Power Phase" or "Draw Phase" those terms simply mean the built in time of your turn where you get to do that activity without anything else telling you to.

The turn goes:

Start of turn

Play a card

Use a power

Draw a card

End of turn

 

Those aren't the only time you are able to do those activities, it is just the only hardwired in time to do them.  Outside of that you have to have instructions to do so.  Some cards even let you end your turn on the part of you turn where you start your turn.  All kinds of interactions can happen.

The idea of those cards granting you a free phase is troublesome, because if Adept can grant Bunker an out of turn power phase, and Bunker has turret mode out he would get to use an additional power.  That isn't how it works.

14

Assuming this is your turn we are talking about, you can only use Powers during your Power phase unless otherwise explicitly stated. So I would think that it would still need to be during your power phase.

That question is a little less clear when we are talking about using Overdrive out of turn. Though I would also guess that the intent is that if you use Overdrive out of turn, it more or less becomes an instant use of both Strikes. That to me is the least convoluted way to look at it.

15

This seems to be the cleanest way to do it. 

16

I would have to agree. It seems to me that the double Strike would happen immediately as a result of resolving the effects of the card. This gets a little confused by the use of "this turn" at the end which can be interpreted to imply it can be used at any point in the turn, but I think that "this turn" is added there to limit the number of times you can use it and not to defer the use of Strike to a later time within the turn. 

Again, that being said, I cannot offer a definitive argument against playing Overdrive, doing everything else in the turn and then using Strike twice… so if that is allowed or disallowed, it should probably be clarified.