New Promo Heroes/Villains

I am glad you  agree, now let me show you why you are wrong:

Game Play: At the start of the villain turn, if there are (H) cards under the Safe House, flip Spite's villain character card. If not, flip a drug card face up.

If the card has no text, then it is not a drug. This ability does nothing.

I'd be surprised if people were terribly unreasonable about this promo.  I've experienced many players' frustrations with Fixer a few times and I understand where they're coming from.  I've felt at times that Fixer's deck was much swingier and relied on more assistance from heroes than many other decks, but this Fixer promo seems to address a lot of complaints:

1.  Bitter Strike deals 3 damage.  It's more than the average 2 damage many hero innates do, and has a destruction rider effect (that isn't a requirement for the damage, which is fantastic).  This makes it different from Strike without necessarily being better.

2.  Fixer can actually put his own equipment into his trash without relying on other sources.  Salvage Yard is a wonderful card, but Fixer has no cards that allow for discard, equipment destruction, or putting equipment in his trash. This allows for more opportunities with Fixer strategies involving Salvage Yard not relying on the villain blowing up cards or playing with particular heroes that regularly put equipment in their trash.

3.  Riveting Crane can now be used without the need of a one-shot, Bloody Knuckles, or a tool.  A frustration voiced by many players is that the style that grants irreducible damage to a target dealt damage by Fixer couldn't be used on its own against a DR of 1.  One use of irreducible damage against a target can really help the team out if you absolutely have to destroy Crane with Bitter Strike, and a base of 3 damage will punch through a lot of villain/environment DR-heavy targets.

4.  If Fixer's hand is full of tools/styles that are not useful in a given game, Fixer isn't stuck with them.  Jack Handle against a villain with only one target and a target light Environment?  Riveting Crane against no DR?  Tire Iron…against a villain with only one target and a target light environment (man, that's a prominent bummer)?  Break them over your opponent's head with a Bitter Strike.

This covers a lot of complaints.  Frustrations over low innate damage, lengthy set-up times, and a hand full of unused cards have often been the subject of frustration for many players and I can see where they're coming from.  I think this build will do for Fixer what Elemental Wrath did for Absolute Zero.  I look forward to seeing how people react to this variant, and I'm quite excited to play it myself.  I have my share of frustrations over Fixer's deck, and I feel like this build will help with a lot of that.  It may even help me appreciate the vanilla Fixer character card more.

If and/or when players continue to voice disdain over Fixer and his playstyle, even with this new promo, I imagine an understanding could be reached between pro and anti Fixer players as long as each respective sides' praise and criticism are understood and acknowledged.

Can't you only Stratosphere cards that are in play? Spite's drug cards are face down, that doesn't mean they're actually in play. They're waiting in their own special area for the conditions to be met to be put into play.

That's a very good point. Teaches me a lesson to read the actual card and not rely on interpretations. This would then mean it enters play when flipped and can trigger those types of effects.

Although, if it leaves play when it is fllipped over again, it would conflict with "indestructible."

Ok I see. So they do have text when flipped. So if some text is active, all of it is. There's no special rule for only allowing some text active right? My question is, what's the point then of flipping the cards? With your interpretation, they are all active all the time. That can't be right. 

You gotta take intent into account at some point. 

Based on Neilzabub, I don't think it is worth discussing this side, but I will anyways. We don't know what the situation is, but we do have previous situation that says only part of the text is active in certain situation:. Unity's bots. While in your hand, the "cannot be played" text is active, while the "at-the-end-of-the-turn" is not. This could very well be the same situation.

EDIT: I do think there might be some clarifications needed. I just wanted to say that forcing this explanation based on the logic that it has no text, might not necessarily be true. There are some other explanations, for example, explaining how a brand new mechanic works, that wont force an errata. So when phantaskippy wrote:

I assume that we will either:

A.  Be able to stratosphere them.

B.  Recieve an Errata that says "These cards are indestructible."

and Foote agreed, I am saying that there are other possibilities.

Why would Fixer want equipment in his trash rather than his hand?  I can think of no strategy where it is better to have them in the trash than in your hand.  I would much rather have them in hand so I can discard them for an environment/villain effect than in the trash so I can just get them back into my hand again for no reason.

 

You guys are way overthinking this.  The watchword of Sentinels rules has always been simplicity.  We don't need special rules that clarify whether a Drug card is a Drug card when it's face-down.  We could use an explicit clarification of whether they are indestructible while face-down, but I feel it's easiest just to assume they are not, and that they can be Stratosphered.  I don't think that'll be as incredible with him as against the normal Spite.

Unity's bots. While in your hand, the "cannot be played" text is active, while the "at-the-end-of-the-turn" is not. This could very well be the same situation.

Good point.

For me it comes down to a card intentionally being set so that it's text is not viewable (unless you have a glass table and play from underneath it, which would be pretty sweet) yet having some of that text still affect the game.  I would not say that cards in your hand do not have text, just that the text isn't active.  When a card enters play it's text "takes effect" (Rulebook), so while a card in your hand is unactivated it still has text, so Mechanical Golemns' have all that text, but it doesn't take effect, because it isn't in play.  

How that resolves with the text saying it can't be played that in super rulesy mode would only be in effect when the card is in play is another example that this game is intended to be easy to follow and not crazy rulesy.

In practice that isn't always possible because "Being able to do really cool stuff," and "Look at this awesome thing we thought up" tend to trump "Let's keep this simple" in the Greater than Games Multiverse, which is something I am totally cool with.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think the cards are actually in play while they're face down, and would therefore not be affected by Into the Stratosphere. I think that's a pretty simple way of looking at it.

I think this is where consistency and creativity diverge. While it is great to have keywords that always work the same in every situation, it also drastically limits the creativity of new cards.

 

Personally, I'm going to play it that the cards are indestructible and that they will be flipped face down when told to do so. This seems to me to be the intent of the flavor, so I'm running with it barring official word from chris saying otherwise

That would be problematic, since they can't leave play, but have a mechanic for flipping back face-down.

Well, it's in the background of ExPat's new character card, it's mentioned in Parse's backstory, that kind of thing. It just seems that it is being mentioned a lot for something that is going to turn out unimportant.

It could be that just the keywords are active, so they are still drugs and indestructible even when flipped face-down.

It also looks like the new Gloomweaver will be like Baron Blade or Apostate, having different HP or just restoring HP on his flip side.

Maybe Pike is a subsidiary of it?

I still hold with that they're not in play while face down. This is a special promo, so this could be a special instance where they're allowed to leave play by having the conditions met to flip them.

Yey! thanks :smiley:

Also, how do we know that the new flip mechanic isn’t maoing the drugs a character card. Only character cards flip. Even though there is no text on the card, the card might still be in play. This would make it immhne to Into the Stratosphere, and its inherent text would bring it back of destroyed.

I wonder... WIll there be *any* way to play both Promo Gloomy and Promo Spite at the same time? You know, with Vengeance just around the corner, it would be nice to be able to do that. The Master and its Minion. Oooooh, spooky. Good kind of Halloween themed game right there.