I don't think it was stated that only character cards flipped, rather it was stated that any card which has a back that is not identical to the given card back for the rest of the deck (i.e. a two face card) is considered a character card.
Also, I have no recollection of ever officially hearing that cards without text do not have keywords or titles (note, I'm not claiming it has not been said, but that I have no memory of such being said). What I'm getting at hear, a portion of the card, specifically the portion below the keyword space, extending near to the bottom of the card, is described as the game text and (if listed) flavor text. Only those two sections are actually defined as being text. Yes, while the title and keyword sections contain typed text for description, it is not listed as text. So, it's possible that any card which says other cards have no text only eliminates game text and flavor text (though the latter has no affect on gameplay). This would allow a face down card to be textless while still being a drug. This would also have significant effect on the many other cards placed underneath other cards such as Savage Mana, La Capitán, The Dreamer, and, to a much lesser extent, The Shrine of the Ennead and The Safe House.
And, should my memory be incorrect, I'm sure proof will soon follow. And even if it isn't, official rulings have changed before.
One thing that has been stated (long ago) is that two villians will never have identical flip mechanics. To date, the two single card villains with the most similar flip mechanics are Baron Blade and Apostate, with the key differences being that Baron Blade has different maximum HP and Apostate can be flipped continuously. We have yet to see what is on the back of GloomWeaver, but I am mostly at a loss as to how GloomWeaver could flip when he would be destroyed, yet have a different mechanic to what Baron Blade or Apostate does. The only character cards thus far which have identical flip mechanics are those which are part of multi card villian setups, which flip when they would be destroyed, and their flip side is an incapacitated side. So, maybe it's possible that the Spite GloomWeaver promos are a dual villain set, and when GloomWeaver would be destroyed, he would become incapacitated.
Even given all that logic and evidence, I still see this as unlikely though.
True, but that isn't my point. My point is that you cannot say "Either my strategy needs to work, or GtG made a mechanic mistake and needs to be fixed." My point is that we absolutely don;t know what the situation is, that's it.
Now, if we were to compare it to other situations, here is what we know:
Only cards under other cards are textless. We have nothing that says other situations are similar.
Cards can be in a situation that only part of its text is active (Unity's bots in hand).
Only character cards flip.
The card needs to have some text, otherwise it wouldn't be a drug, and would never flip.
If it was meant to have no text, why didn't it just say so like promo Blade.
To base an argument on the assumption that it has no text seems silly to me, since it has no similarities to the situation with no text, and it does have some similarities to other situations.
If so, this would make Omni-Cannon extremely powerful. Play 3 equipment cards a turn for protection or Unity.
Or using Savage Mana with a bunch of birds underneath would be painful, and Voss would keep his DR.
Or Savage Mana would be the greatest card ever, since each time he uses the ability, he would be destroying a target underneath him, so it would go right back.
The only rules we have on things not having text is for cards under other cards. Those cards don't have keywords, or they could be destroyed for hero abilities that require such destruction. F6 Tempest can destroy his cards under another target because while they have no text they remain his cards.
Here's the thought behind my interpretation:
We don't have rules for upside down cards, but I would assume that they wouldn't be too complex.
What I think makes sense is if you can't see the text it isn't there. Obviously the problem with that is Quick Draw which has you search the deck for a specific named card.
My opinion would be that searching your deck involves revealing cards, and therefore it wouldn't require considering cards you can't see to have text.
Since the back of the card designates the deck it belongs to, cards without text still belong to a deck, because the back of the card isn't text.
None of this is official, it is just how it makes sense to me.
I would assume that Stratosphere would work, as would simply destroying the cards. (Which I believe only End of Days and exploding an instrument would be able to do, since almost every destruction card requires it to be ongoing) That is my interpretation of how the instructions on Spite work.
It definitely isn't breaking the game, as it would be a combination of abilities to bury the drugs, and even though Lab raid doesn't get played On the Prowl shuffles the deck, those drugs won't stay buried very easily.
I don't see it as any different than suggestion burying Capitan's ship or Brain Burn moving thugs to the bottom of the deck.
But that doesn’t explain how they would flip to begin with. If they have no text, they aren’t drugs. Once tou establish that it has some text that is required for gameplay, is it not a far stretch to say they are indestructible.
The drugs are very different than the ship or the thugs, because those chaacters have other cards to play. Spite doesn’t have anything else to play but victims and cards affecting victims. Almost all of gis damage and effects come from the drugs. Making victims pointless because there are no drugs completely stops Spite in a way that burying the ships and drugs won’t stop the others.
I can see how the "Drug" keyword is still active while facedown. It's clear that much is intended, else you would never be able to flip them face up.
What I do not see is Drugs keeping their indestructiable status while facedown. Intro the Strata should be able to bump a facedown villain card to the top of the deck. The reason that is a far stretch, pydro, is that if you consider any text within that text box partially active, you must then concede the entire text box is active. Not a chance thats correct. Indestructible is *not* an inherent attribute of the keyword "Drug". It is only made indestructible by way of the effects from the text box.
However, like Watson originally stated, if a facedown drug happened to go into the trash, its game text would kick in once it's in the trash and would come back in play face up. End of Days would effectivly, by the end, turn 5 face down drug cards into face up ones.
None of that would impact how Savage Mana or LaCapitain work either. I understand there might be other ways to think about it, but really, this is the only one that keeps things consistant and simple. That to me is a strong indicator of original intent.
Look at it this way. By sheer virtue of Spites setup instructions, there is a set precedent for his Drug cards to maintain the Drug Keyword even while face down, at least for this villain encounter only. There is no precedent anywhere in-game where face down cards have text active from their textbox.
The question on end of days isn't would it be smart to play it, but if you did would it destroy the drugs. There isn't really ever a time that End of Days is smart on Spite, but there are also times that it might enter play without you wanting it to, then you'd have to try and destroy it, or let it do nothing, depending on how this is ruled.
In the end whether or not they are indestructible won't make much difference at all in how he is played.
I am super glad to have a remade version of him, can't wait to ruin his comeback tour with an already scheduled beatdown.
If there were two villains at the top of my "I really need a promo for this guy", it would be Gloomy and Spite. I'd like to see the official difficulty of Original Gloomy be reduced to 2. He certainly is not a 3. I'm hoping skinwalker is a 4!
so ive been sitting on this picture since origins, but there is DW Fixer in progress. I didnt release it before because Adam gave me a rather stern look when he caught me snapping the picture
I do recall him explaining the Scar as the one The Operative gave him in the card mentioned above, and that he would have less grey in his beard because of coming back… (edit : explaining to christopher, and i overheard…)
given the operative is his student i believe he was killed by her and in a sudden tinge of remorse, she put him in The Chairmans Lazarus vats to bring him back
The younger/bulkier Fixer definatly hints at the Lazarus vats, you are probably spot on there. Especially if the beard color is of particular was of specific note.
Really puts a fork in my "the dragon revived him" theory, but I am not ready to say that the Chinese man is not involved in a significant way here. There is some pretty solid speculation out there by myself and Jaymann and others that the Chinese Fu Manchu dude and the large Red Dragon are one in the same, and t he dragon tattoo sported by the new Fixer is too similar to the one Operative has to not signal a connection between all three of them. What makes this Fixer (the master of Zen mind you!) so bitter?
Is this Chinese dude the same one that taught Nightmist about her Magic/Curse? Read her bio again. I havnt seen a whole lot of mystical chinese dudes in Adams art besides this guy. Could it be the link between Fixer and Nightmist in the Dark Watch team?
Here is the inherent problem I have with this. We know for a fact that if a card is textless, it has no keyword. Now to argue that it NEEDS to have a keyword to work is fine, but why stop the argument there. Maybe it also NEEDS the indestructible to work too. As I mentioned before, Spite with less Drugs is almost completely nuetered.
You can't use the argument of "what's needed" to only apply what you want, it should apply all over.You can't pick what you want, then apply current rules with what you don't. What we have is a new mechainc what that means is anyone's guess.
I wold love to play Unity with you. Since the "you cannot play this card during your play phase" is active while it is in your hand, by your own reasoning, you MUST also apply the bots effects. After all, if part of the box is active, the enitre box must be active.
If you argue that Unity is different because you need that text there, then you can say the EXACT same thing here. Everyone keeps bringing up current rules that we have for a new situation, but they ignore everything that doesn't fit.
However, there are other good reason that your explanation doesn't immediately make sense.
Why does it even say to flip a "Drug." It could have just as easily said "flip a facedown card." If you said "flip a facedown card" then it would CLEARLY indicate that the cards have no text. Why use a wording that clearly shows it does have text?
Now, you could say it is an issue of real estate, but you run into another problem. Why does it say to put the cards in the play "area." That is just an extra word that isn't needed.
There are only 2 possible explanations:
They are not in play when face down (How this works with Indestructible, we don't know).
SOME (or all) words are active. You can of course pick and choose what you feel should be in there, but there is no basis for your argument, while I have given several for mine.
As I have said before, there is NOTHING consistent here. People are saying what they thing, and not applying anything consistent here. In fact, we do have a situation where a promo villain makes texts textless, and it says it outright on the card. If anything, we have a precedent that these cards aren't textless.
Great argument. One question though. Please show me ANYWHERE in the game that facedown cards have NO TEXT. In fact, show me anything similar here. You never have to prove why something isn't, you always havce to prove why something is. We have nothing that says they lose there text (whether partial or completel). The burden of proof is the one saying it's different, not the one saying it is the same.
In fact, if your entire arguemnt is that "Drug" has to be active for it to work, the SIMPLEST explanation is that the entire card is active, but the damage isn't for it to work.
I (mostly) stand behind what I said earlier. I'm also not much up for debating issues (anymore anyway), thus I make my point and bow out. But, one thing to add, while making my point, I was assuming that any new cases being brought up with this card (what does face down card mean?) was going to be explained upon release of the card (either in passing discussion when the text is fully officially released in the case this is a one-shot type mechanic, or introduced in the Vengence rulebook if such a mechanic is to become more mainstream), and to also bring up a fitting point that goes counter to the consensus, but, to my knowledge, not exactly counter to what was officially stated (when reading the link, people further down immediately assumed textless also meant no keywords, and rightfully so, as I would have assumed myself after reading that, though it was not specifically stated exactly as such).
This is precisely my point. We don't know how it works, and to say that either Into the Strasphere works or GtG made a mistake and they need an errata is very premature.
Also, everyone keeps saying intent, how do you know what the intent is? Maybe the intent is for Into the Stratosphere not to work.
If the card was meant to work like everyone is saying, why have this strange setup. Why not just put the drugs under Spite at the start of the game (and be textless), and keep moving them from underneath out into the open and back. This would be simplier, and consistent with what we have, if the suggested play style is correct.
However, we have this strange setup, to me at least, the reason for the setup is simple. The intent is for the cards to always be in play (or have the possibility of being in play), but are sometimes active and sometimes not.
The setup instructions are what clearly set the precedant (and maybe for this fight only) that the Drug keyword is active when they are face down. Yes, my stance is that is indeed that is nessesary.
I understand your Unity counter example above. But let me phrase it another way. Yes, the text of "you cannot play this card during your play phase" matters while its in your hand. I can't help but see this an more an exception to the rule than a verification of one however. It is clearly a restriction on when the card can enter play. Otherwise, cards must be in play for their effects to actually effect things. Consider exploding a wagon in 1883. Card can't carry out its destruction effect from the trash, so it must stay in play for the text to be active. Official ruling that. Are you trying to say that having Swift Bot in your hand affords you its effects of extra draws and plays? You are twisting my words. Just because a Keyword is specifically allowed to be active (by pure virtue of the setup instructions) does not mean we throw everything else of common sense out the door.
Uhhh, Savage Mana. Did you really need me to spell this one out? Its been officially ruled that cards under it have no game text and in fact lose keywords as well. Spiff's excellent document clearly makes note of the Matriarch/Fowls case (ie, Matriarch does not deal revenge damage when fowl cards are re-destroyed under Savage Mana). Same goes for Bomber Blade. Same goes for Omni Canon. Same for LaCaptain.
There are now two special cases where keywords still remain on flipped cards. And they are both explicitly stated. 1) The Dreamers flip side. They need to still count as projections while under her for the sole purpose of counting toward the win condition. It is clearly the intent and marked in the instructions as such. 2) EmoSpite. Clearly marked in his setup instructions that the flipped cards need to keep their keyword to function and is clearly the intent.
Burden of proof is in saying why these cases are different from the well established norm? Done. There you go.
Can you as easily explain why just the "indestructible" text should remain active when flipped while no other text is?
My take on promo Spite is that the drugs work this way:
1. by taking them out of the deck and putting them "into play", they are designated as Drugs, with all the indestructibility inherent therein.
2. You can't screw with them, because even when flipped, they are STILL specifically referred to as drugs (with all the indestructibility therein).
3. The only thing you can do with them is flip them, as explained by the character card (which always takes precedence over the usual rules).
4. Any or all of this could be wrong.
As for DW Fixer, I'm wondering if he bought the operatives life/freedom in exchange for his own. Pike gets to call on him for "favors" that further his cause. Nothing so blatant as "take out this target" or "kill this guy", but if Pike points out people who are doing bad things,and it just so happens to help Pike stay on top that they get put in jail... Or say, theres a mad, resurrected serial killer on the loose- thats hardly good business.
Pike gets to stay in control, and rebuild his empire. Mr Fixer knows full well that he's being used, but made a deal.
It would certainly explain the "Bitter" part of "Bitter Strike"!
