Rate My Build (Heroes)

Games Sentinel Comics RPG
#61

Destinia:

I'm once again at a loss to understand what Destinia is supposed to do.  In Green she can give herself a persistent boost, and then Offensive Strike is probably going to be her bread-and-butter action.  Defend with Mid + an action with Min is one of the least useful ability types out there, and two actions with Min is rarely going to do anything useful.  I'd favor Dual Strike, Precise Strike, or Throw Minion over either of those.  In Yellow she has another one of my least favorite abilities (take a basic action and remove a penalty on yourself or recover with your Min), and it's a version even more restrictive than usual since it can only boost herself.  It'll be valuable if she picks up a -3 or -4 persistent penalty, but that's only going to happen so many times.  Danger Sense is okay but also may or may not see frequent use.  Meanwhile the "multiple targets" ability, which are great, especially on heroes who boost themselves, wasn't taken.  So once again we have a hero who'll spend most of their time in Yellow using Green abilities--and Destinia doesn't have a lot of great Green abilities either,  Then once in Red, you have Specialized Info, which is pretty great, but then Reliable Aptitude, which can't be used with Specialized info and will therefore be used with... again, mostly just Green abilities, and not even all of them.  This is a hero who starts off with a lot of options, if not great ones, but falls behind at lower Status, especially with her Distant personality.

Axia:

Persistent boosts and persistent penalties are a great way to start off an encounter, and controlling positioning and turn order can be unexpectedly valuable.  Then in Yellow you have a mass attack, albeit one that comes with self-damage (though not usually too much of it--and the more you take, the more valuable the action was anyway).  You'll be taking out lots of minions, so boosting yourself when that happens will be helpful.  Unfortunately, Reality Shaper comes with only Reactions, which will conflict with Absorb Essence; not sure Helpful Analysis is the best choice here given that you're already taking self-damage, and this one can be pricey.  Unerring Strike is a great offensive ability, and Purification can be a handy get-out-of-jail-free ability, though I'm not sold on Ultimatum--a single-target -4 Hinder and a self-only ~+2 boost is pretty weak for a Red.  Unfortunately you don't have much available to you in the way of defense or healing, or I'd recommend that to make up for your self-damage.  I'd probably take Inspiring Totem to add a Defend or maybe a Hinder (but then I always try to take Inspiring Totem!). Give Time or Reliable Aptitude would be thematically appropriate.

#62

Slight correction on Ultimatum MindWanderer, it can boost Axia or another hero.

#63

Ah, so it is.  I wonder why it specifies a target at all.  Doesn't change my feelings about it much, though.

#64

It probably specifies a target because the Boost action can normally target anyone, even a foe. Ultimatum inspiring a foe to action just doesn't make much sense to me.
Although, speaking of characters with Flexible Stance, here's the character I built a while back who uses it to consistent and pretty impressive effect.

The Black Swordsman
- Background: Unremarkable
- Power Source: Training
- Archetype: Close Quarters Combatant
- Personality: Apathetic
- Powers:
-- Agility d10, Strength d8, Vitality d6, Speed d8
- Qualities:
-- Alertness d10, Insight d8, Close Combat d10, Acrobatics d8, Fitness d8, Alter Ego d8
- Abilities
-- Green: 32-25 Health
--- <Vertical>(Defensive Strike) (A): Defend using Close Combat. Then, Attack using your Min die
---  <Skill Connect>(Flexible Stance) (A): Take any two basic actions using Agility, each using your Min die
---  <Vorpal Thrust>(Precise Strike) (A): Attack using Alertness. Ignore all penalties on this Attack, ignore any Defend actions, and it cannot be affected by reactions.
--- Principle Of Detachment
--- Principle Of The Everyman
-- Yellow: 24-12 Health
--- Twin Sword Stance(Always Be Prepared) (A): Boost using Agility. That bonus is persistent and exclusive. Then, Attack using your Min die. You may use the bonus you just created on that Attack.
--- Artificial Reinforcement(Area Healing) (A): Boost another hero using Transmutation. You and other nearby heroes Recover health equal to your Min die.
--- <End Revolver>(Reactive Field) (R): When you are attacked by a nearby enemy, the attacker also takes an equal amount of damage.
--- <Horizontal Square>(Offensive Strike) (A): Attack using Strength. Use your Max die.
-- Red: 11-1 Health
--- Phantom Wound(Endurance Fighting) (I): Whenever you Attack a target with an action, also Hinder that target with your Min die.
--- Faster-Faster-Faster(Inspiring totem) (I): When you use an ability action, you may also perform any one basic action using your Mid die on the same roll.
--- <Starburst Stream>(Finishing Blow) (R): Attack using Close Combat. Use your Max die. Remove any number of penalties from the target. Add your Min die to the the Attack each time you remove a penalty

 

In a corner of the Multiverse where technology went in a slightly different direction, there was a certain incident where thousands of people were trapped in a virtual reality game, unable to log out on the threat of death until the game was beaten. After two long years however, the players escaped the game and returned to every day life as best they could. When Oblivaeon came to all realities though, the people of that world were surprised to see the supposed avatar of the player who had beaten that game fighting against a Scion alongside other heroes. With minimal vocalization other than frustrated wordless shouts, the avatar contributed as best it could against the horrors assaulting their world.
When the fighting concluded, the avatar was nowhere to be seen, and it was conclusively proven that the original player had been somewhere else at the time of the fighting. People are left to wonder where will this enigma wearing a past heroes face appear next, and whose side it will be on when it does.

#65

As you might have figured, I went ahead and built out a full eldritch-themed team:  The Armitage Society

In addition to Verhexen, Gatekeeper, and Axia, we also have:

  • Heiress--the last genetic heir of dreamwalker Randolph Carter and wielder of the The Silver Key
  • Ward--a globe-hopping adventureress/archaeologist and expert on doomsday prophecies
  • Gallowglass--the inheritor of Cuchullain's spear, Gae Bulg, which infuses him with power
  • Rocky--a living grotesque, brought to sentience by an unknown sorcerer.

If you'd like, oh optimizers of the board, to take a look at the rest and, perhaps, give some thoughts on how they look working as a team, I'd certainly appreciate it.

And, for what it's worth, anyone is free to use The Armitage Society for their own home games.  I built them specifically with one-shot, convention games in mind, so that they'd be easy to sit down, understand from the outset, and have their own unique 'schtick'.  In my estimation, the two most similar are Axia and Gatekeeper, but they each have their own feel for things (esoteric mathematics and necromancy, appropriately).

#66

I like the concepts, PlatinumWarlock! I'll take a closer look at them.

As for my team, I'm going to wait until they actually hit the table before I tweak them any further.  I have limited experience, but I think they're going to do just fine.  

#67

First, I love the general theming of The Armitage Society. The unknown eldritch forces waiting in the shadows, or hovering just out of understanding of the world as we know it, is a concept that always grabs my attention. In lieu of doing individual breakdowns of the remaining four members, I'm just going to run over all 7 in terms of working as a team.

VERHEXEN: Verhexen fills the bruiser role on the team, able to wade into the fight and break down whatever foes present themselves. The rest of the team will be able to mostly leave him to his own devices, although I doubt he'll ever turn down the offer of a Boost action from an ally; Some monsters just need more than one man to fell them.

GATEKEEPER: Gatekeeper is very much a command and control hero for the team, providing his allies on-site assistance while being able to remove weak targets to save the rest of the team time. He'll probably want another team member to handle large single targets or swarms of foes, but that's fine; Death comes to everyone in the end.

AXIA: Axia seems to fill a saboteur role on the team, taking actions that might seem to have no immediate benefit. However, when the villain's are ready to put their plan in motion, vital parts will be missing or crippled. Or, simply not there at all. Axia will simply have to find the desired equation of the villains; Once she has it, any errors present will be brought into the harsh light of logic.

HEIRESS: Heiress definitely fills a sniper role on the team, able to strike at a foe from cover or in ways that mislead and disrupt their operations. As a fight goes on, villains will find that the strikes from the Silver Key are able to find them regardless of how they defend themself or hide. Heiress will always be able to find the villain in the end; It is in dreams that they will be put to the test.

WARD: Ward fills a sort of dungeons and dragons bard role on the team. With her range of options, Ward is able to locate the back entrance and clear it out of opposition as she goes, leaving it available for her allies as an entry point or escape route. At the same time, her expertise ensures that they'll be able to deal with the various debilitating effects of dealing with eldritch forces. No intelligent foe will let Ward escape their notice; She will always have a way to change things up.

Gallowglass (an editorial note): I only really know about Cu Chulain and Gae Bulg from the Fate series of works by Kinoku Nasu, so it was interesting to see them mentioned here. I feel like you understand them much better than I do, and Gallowglass shows that.

GALLOWGLASS: Gallowglass will the bruiser role on the team much like Verhexen, but he approaches it from a different angle. Where Verhexen digs in his heels and refuses to die, Gallowglass welcomes the approach of death with devastating blows. With his strikes increasing in power against a foe who attempts to prevent him from fighting at full strength, he'll be able to tear asunder foes who get in his way. The Wild Hunt is coming, indeed.

ROCKY: Rocky functions easily as the team's shock trooper, flying in out of nowhere and making his presence known. With his resistance to physical damage and flight capabilities, the less eldritch inclined among the team's foes will be hard pressed keep him from becoming a thorn in their side. Add in his observational skills, and even his time spent observing foes will prove a boon to his team. A stone sentinel is a powerful guardian; Sentience makes Rocky a force to be reckoned with.

 

As a team, they are pretty well balanced. I'm going to assume a 4 hero team for this (although 2-6 is apparently the nominal range) and go from there. No team member strikes me as more powerful than the others, or as making another pointless. Verhexen, Gallowglass, and Rocky all at first glance are capable bruisers, but each approaches it differently. Verhexen has the durability to go toe to toe with a powerful foe, while Gallowglass will be tearing foes asunder with Gae Bulg and his physical might. Rocky is more mobile than either of the other two, and can swiftly relocate to where he's needed.

Ward is definitely a bit roundabout on first glance, and she might require a bit of thought when played. With no green zone attacks, a first time player might assume that she can't attack until the yellow or red zones. In a lot of ways, how she plays will depend on who else from the team is present. Her kit is versatile enough to make that a viable option.

 

Overall though, The Armitage Society get's good marks from me. No obvious weaknesses, no overwhelming strengths that make members less useful than one another, and reasonable amounts of redundancy with some careful play makes them a solid team in my book.

#68

WIthout going into depth on each of the new members, The Armitage Society strikes me as a team that doesn't necessarily work together very well.  They have a few abilities that defend each other, but they don't have a lot of support, especially mass boosts/hinders.  Several of them sacrifice health and none of them have any healing, and none of them have heavy-duty defense.  They have some good Overcome abilities in Red, but not a lot of heavy-hitting offense, so I see boss battles being a weak point for them.  Some of them can handle waves of minions, but only with good strategy.  None of them are bad, per se, but this is one case where the whole really is equal to the sum of its parts.

#69

How do we account for the interesting differences catDreaming and MindWanderer have to the exact same characters? :)

And what would it take for MindWanderer to unequivocally like a build? :D

#70

MindWanderer and I have different critique styles, and I am of the opinion that's a good thing.

What would it take for MindWanderer to unequivocally like a build? *shrug*

#71

To go to bat for my team a bit here, there are only 6 (of 20) power sources and 4 of 20 archetypes that provide a non-conditional Recover as part of a green or yellow action (i.e. doesn't require you to be hit by a certain energy type or shift zones or such).  That's not a lot of option for healing/recovery.

Gallowglass certainly has the most in the way of healing, as he gets it from both his Relic power source and his Physical Powerhouse archetype.  But, pretty much every other character has some way of mitigating incoming damage while still contributing to the fight: Verhexen and Rocky both have damage reduction; Ward has a number of defensive options in red, especially considering she could take a free defend every round with Inspiring Totem; Gatekeeper has Reach Through Veil, which gives another ally an out of turn defend every round in yellow.

Admittedly, Axia and Heiress are more glass cannon-y, but I also look at it this way:  a Hinder action is, by nature, a targeted Defend action.  You lose the global flexibility of "I take less damage on the next thing that hits me" in favor of "the next time it tries to hit me or do anything else, I'll take less damage". Yes, it's a bigger liability in minion heavy fights, but several heroes (Rocky, Gatekeeper, Heiress) have attacks that reliably neutralize minions. 

As for low damage output, I just don't quite see it. Provided that theycan get one bonus from a teammate (like Gatekeeper,  Ward, or Rocky, who can give them out like candy) Gallowglass and Heiress are throwing Charged Up Blast every round, with a free Hinder on Gallowglass, while Heiress gets to start on the damage earlier with Exploding Ammo in yellow. While nominally defensive, Verhexen even gets in on the party with Reactive Strike, Field of Hazards, and Combustion.  

What am I missing?

#72

True, there aren't many abilities that heal other heroes, but there's also plenty of abilities that heal yourself, or defend yourself, or defend others, and if you have heroes who burn themselves out, especially with abilities they're likely to want to use often, then you really want some sort of mitigation that applies to those heroes.

Charged-Up Blast is strong, if you can be assured of having boosts all the time, and I don't see them being handed out "like candy" by anyone here.  Ward can hand out a single boost as an Action, although she could use Inspiring Totem for another if she really needed to.  Rocky has Aerial Surveillance--and now that I think of it, I have no idea how that interacts with Charged-Up Blast--but then he isn't using his own offensive Red ability, Take Down.  Gatekeeper's Mass Modification is the only move I see handing out lots of bonuses frequently, and in Red that'll only be after she's spent a round or two using Summon Allies.

Exploding Ammo only works on environmental targets, and the environment typically isn't introducing Villains, and rarely Lieutenants.  Verhexen is actually the most offensive of all in Red, although he has to be careful not to burn himself out (the GM would have to decide whether his reflavored Power Armor deals Infernal damage).

#73

Oh, I think that’s easy, especially looking at this most recent example. :slight_smile:

catDreaming looks at the theme, then digs into the mechanics of each of them. (The first sentence shows that pretty clearly, I think.) MindWanderer has always been very focused on the mechanics, the “crunch” of the game. (That’s my perception, anyway! :slight_smile:

This is actually why I don’t participate in these discussions. :slight_smile: There’s nothing wrong with them at all! Don’t get me wrong! :smiley: I just don’t look at a character and want to optimize or rate it. I create my characters with a specific theme and go from there. (I’ll even put in completely non-optimized aspects purely because it’s appropriate to the character.) It’s just a different way to approach character builds. :wink:

And I love that folks here are willing to participate in the discussion without saying anyone else is “wrong”. :smiley:

#74

I’ll really concede that actions that provide a Defend are fairly common, but the numbers I cited above regarding Recover are accurate. Healing self or others is not common by any stretch, and most reliable way it seems to regain health is either between scenes or hoping an enemy attacks you with an element that you’re attuned to.

Regarding throwing down Boosts:
Heiress has two abilities that grant a Boost (1 green, 1 yellow)
Ward has 3 (1 green, 1 yellow, 1 red)
Verhexen has 1 (yellow)
Axia has 2 (1 yellow, 1 red)
Rocky has 2 (1 yellow which attracts all heroes, 1 red)
Gallowglass has 1 (yellow), and can turn a penalty to a bonus if he attacks the one who inflicted it.
Gatekeeper has 1 (yellow, but affects all nearby allies)

I mean, if Heiress and Gallowglass can’t get 1 bonus per turn to burn for Charged Up Blast, there’s some serious lack of teamwork going on.

#75

Well, there are a couple of ways to think of "teamwork." One is, "Can I do a thing that helps my partner do a thing they want to do?" Another is, "Can I do what I want to do, and thereby help my partner do what they want to do?"  When it comes to feeding Charged-Up Blast, they can do the former, no problem, but the latter not so much.  In Red, Rocky can only boost himself, Axia would have to forego her own offense, and Ward's ability is only useful if the subject has already gone that turn (which can be arranged, but comes at the cost of options).

That said, if I can be a more catDreaming-ish for a sec, maybe that's more desirable.  Maybe the team dynamic you want is that the members have to make an effort to help each other out.  Thematically, that's fine.  From a sheer output optimization perspective it's not as great, though.

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#76

That’s a fair distinction to make, and is appreciated.
After the 2nd or 3rd Hero, I really tried to design them to complement one another, in the “You set 'em up, I’ll knock 'em down” mindset.
I’m also of a mind that a given hero isn’t Always going to want to use their Red abilities, just because they are/the scene is in Red. If the option to use something in Green or Yellow is more useful in the situation, that’s a better option, even if it’s not mechanically the strongest possible option.

#77

True, but Red abilities are designed to be the most powerful abilities available.  Once a character has been made, a Red ability isn't always going to be the best one to use at any given time--or, necessarily, ever.  But the more use you can get out of your Reds, generally speaking, the more of an impact you'll have.

#78

The point on Ward's Red Boost ability fits into my point of Ward requiring a bit more thought than the others to play at first glance. She can be picked up for casual play just fine, but to really make the most impact with her requires coordinating with the rest of the team. Inspiring Totem and Give Time are powerful abilities, but they both require a bit of forethought and situational awareness to get the most impact out of.

#79

I have really enjoyed seeing Catdreaming and Mind rate these builds so I used Beeromancer's Google sheet to make a character I had rolled up months ago.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QP7hIMRVdmyiMLpVXK5o__sZwwQUaxlJ/view?usp=sharing

No one knows where Son of Poy comes from but he harassed heroes for a while. After OblivAeon came though, something changed. It almost feels like he now has recovered his(her?) mind. His actions are now in the defense of all life instead of the attacks that were directed at people who had encroached on the natural world.

#80

Son of Poy's pretty good.  In Green, he has the always-handy Max Attack, and if that's not appropriate he can Hinder for Max and maybe Attack as well.  And you wisely bound Banish to a smaller die, to increase the odds of rolling doubles.  In Yellow, Field of Energy is amazing, of course, and when it's not, Costly Strength is.  Cursed Resolve is...meh, but it does have uses.  In Red... looks like you gave up on outdoing what you were already doing in Yellow and made it so that you can be rolling as many d12's as possible, and have a bit of defense.  That's not the worst move, considering your Yellow and Green Abilities are pretty strong.

For a serious build, I nearly always go with the third Red ability over the larger Red die.  Given that this is a bit of a meme, though, I think what I'd really do differently is go with Academic, Interstellar, or Created as the Background, just so I could be rolling 3d12 all the time in Red (and trying for 13's!).  Also you have three Element/Energy Powers, which will limit your problem-solving options a fair bit; I'd take an Athletic Power at least to score some extra HP. (And if you gave up on the meme, Push Your Limits + Defensive Deflection is quite strong.)

Also it doesn't look like you quite finished.  You're missing your personal Quality, you never chose a Power for Powerful Blast, and your Out ability references a Quality you don't have.