I recently listened to a podcast in which Christopher was being interviewed (the Giant Firebreathing Robot one, I think). Towards the end of the podcast, the host mentioned how the GSF Kickstarter should do great given how much regard people have for the company due to SotM. Christopher replied that that was actually a bit of a complicating factor because they don't know how much enthusiasm there will be for GSF on its own. They don't want people to buy GSF just because it's a >G game, they want people to buy it on its own merits. That's an insightful comment, but as I look at the Kickstarter today, it seems to me that this is not the Kickstarter of a game which wants to stand on its own merits. This is the Kickstarter of a >G expansion.
There's no gameplay video. The full rules of the game haven't even been posted (some have, but it's easy to tell from the answers to my questions about how Tech works that there's still more to reveal). Not a single picture of the minis have been posted even though they're a major part of the Kickstarter. In short, this Kickstarter is hoping you like SotM enough that you'll cut GSF some slack.
I understand the desire for the slow reveal. It's worked great for every >G Kickstarter so far. But those were each expansions. The customers were already hooked on the base product, so teasing them for a month made sense. With GSF, a potential customer who has no pre-existing love for SotM or >G (which is the type of customer that Christopher says he wants to appeal to), will likely see a Kickstarter which is asking for their money but not really showing them the full product they're being asked to buy. Maybe by the end of the Kickstarter, all the information that customer was looking for will be available, but by then the customer will have moved on.
If the Kickstarter is really meant to stand on its own, it needs to do more right now. Don't let those customers click away from the Kickstarter page. They need to be wowwed right now, with as much detail about what the game is and what they'll be getting if they pledge money as it's possible to put on a web page. Individual cards and ships and stuff can be slow-walked over the course of the month, but right now, I'm worried too much information is being sandbagged for later and that the only people who are pledging are the ones who already feel positively towards >G because of SotM, which is exactly what Christopher said he didn't want.
I'll be honest here. I've pledged on the Kickstarter, know how the game works, and have the greatest of faith in >G. But I have to agree. If this were my first exposure to the product or the company, I probably would have been briefly interested and then moved on. There are lots of gaming projects on Kickstarter right now, and something has to be truly stand-out on its own merits to grab people. I'm the kind of guy who will stand in a FLGS to read a couple reviews of a game before I buy it. If I were doing that in this instance, I would have already put it back on the shelf.
That being said, I know it's good from experience (now, at least), and I'm trying to share that with people. But the number of people I know won't get this to its $150k stretch goal. There have been a few things, between BGG and the Kickstarter comments themselves, suggesting courses of action to improve. I'm sure they haven't been ignored, but it's going to need to happen, and soon, before this gets pushed to the back burner.
Spiff, I think you are correct. The game seems interesting, but I am not sure yet if it will appeal to my daughter, who is my primary SotM play partner.
Right now I haven't backed the game, because I don't know enough information yet. Since I am a fan Sentinels, I keep checking back for more information, but I do worry that casuals will be less likely to keep checking back.
Echoing the other replies, I completely agree with your post, Spiff. I've been concerned about the slow rollout because while the kickstarter will certainly fund, after the initial rush of funding momentum has slowed to a near crawl the past few days. There's been no real BGG presence, no gamplay video, no example minis...I can't help but feel this was launched a week or two early (I say this as a first day backer based on >G' rep).
I think we all want to see more of that because we love the products >G has put out so far and want to get more people aware and excited by them. It just feels that the marketing has been so under the radar so far that it could hurt those efforts in the long run
I feel like they rushed to get this KS together in order to get the fundings for their intended timeline, but the lack of rules from the first update might have detered people already at start.
Edit: Though I think the rules and the fact each Ship Model is unique has helped that slightly. Would definitely be nice if we could get a gameplay video. I am still excited from what I have read from this forum though :)
Add me to the consensus of folk worried about the management of this very promising project. As well as some more hard info I wonder if a BGG front page competition might turn things around.
Well, today's update had some basic gameplay videos. Looks good to me, I'm a big deck building fan and I like how it appears to integrate the mechanic with the theme. Hopefully more folks will see this and start pledging
We are definitely going to be adding more information about the game to the Kickstarter! Our goal is to update it every single weekday (we might not be able to keep that schedule, but worst case scenario we'll come really close). We want to avoid two problems: 1) Having the main kickstarter page be so long that finding any information is difficult and 2) Spamming dozens of updates in a single day. However, we are definitely paying attention to the comments, and are going to re-work the main page slightly to include some more full component images etc.
That having been said, we aren't at all worried about the Kickstarter! We are confident that we'll fund very soon (only about a week into the project), which means that we will definitely go forward with this game. If there are a bunch of people who looked at the project already and have chosen to wait, they'll get a reminder 48hrs before the project ends and, when they click back to the page, they'll see a ton more information that will hopefully help them decide! There is always a huge jump in pledges in the last 2 days of our Kickstarters for this very reason, and that jump might be even bigger this time around as it is a whole new game.
In the end, regardless of how much the Kickstarter over-funds, the ultimate success of the game rests in how the game plays, and capturing people's attention at conventions. The last time we launched a brand-new game, we brought it to Gen Con without having done a Kickstarter or having run any sort of pre-marketing campaign. This time around, we are much better at running convention booths and will have a much larger and more visible demo space. I suspect that there will be a lot of people at conventions who have heard about the game due to the Kickstarter campaign, but opted to wait until they played it in person. I am really excited about playing the game with those people, and selling to them at a convention! :)
This raises an interesting question regarding timing. I believe the plan was to have simultaneous demos and games of both games running at GenCon this year, hence the massive booth. Is that on track still?
Our booth at Gen Con this year will have room for 10 simultaneous demo games. We frequently had more than 10 demo games going on at PAX East this year with just SotM (we took over some of the open gaming area :D ). Given that Gen Con is is so much bigger (for tabletop gaming), and we will have so many more volunteers, I am completely confident that we can fill up our booth with demos 90% of the time with just SotM (which is why we got the larger booth). Now, if we happen to have any other games at Gen Con, we would certainly dedicate some of our booth space to demos for it, but we are not counting on that at this time.
Ah, ok. So, currently, it's just SotM, then. I thought it seemed like a quick turnaround for GSF to be there, but I don't like to be a doubting Thomas. :-P
The new videos are a good start, but I'm going to continue my (uncomfortable) stance as Devil's Advocate to ask if those video are doing the job required, namely to increase the Kickstarter's Awesomeness level. In my day job, I'm a software program manager, so I'm always keeping a critical eye open for ways to improve projects. Here's my assessment (which I fervently hope isn't taken personally) and my suggestions for improvement:
Those videos are pretty much just Christopher describing in video form the rules as they're already described in text form on the Kickstarter. The video is washed out, and the single camera is too far away from the table to give anyone any real feel for the game's components. Things on the table look kind of cramped, and since it's just Christopher talking, there's no way to see how table talk or player interaction will make the experience of walking through the game's phases in any way Awesome.
What do I think would increase the Kickstarter's Awesomeness?
Film a group of players sitting around the table talking over the decision of who will travel to which sector and why. Have them talk through the decision process of who will purchase which Station cards and why so we can see how different player's different strategies affect the game. Have them use their newly installed Tech to blast or be blasted by exotic alien spacecraft. Have them quail at the thought of having to face the Opposition flagship if their plans go awry.
Show the components! I know you don't have the minis or cards printed out on cardstock yet, but you should be able to mock up enough to fake it for a 5-minute video, no? If you can't do that, then how about whenever a player references a card or panel, you overlay the art for that card or panel in the top corner of the video? That way the viewer gets to look at what the players are talking about and can share in the excitement. We want viewers saying to themselves, "This looks wicked fun. I can't wait to sit down with my friends and play".
Give more of the reasons why the game is fun up front. Don't wait for the slow reveal (we've discussed this before...). There were four player ships in the demo Christopher gave. How are they different? Why would the viewer watching the video choose one over the other? You can tell me the Valiant is one of the ships, or you can tell me the Valiant is one of the ships and it has fast attacks and stealth capabilities, and now I have the flavor. Now the Awesomeness level has been raised. There was an Opposition fleet being played against in the demo, but I couldn't tell you why or how it was Awesome. Opportunity missed.
Sell it, sell it, sell it. Once again, thank you for listening.
I agree with Spiff. I mean the game is funded, but I have a feeling everyone is aiming for those larger opposition ships.
Like spiff said real game play would be nice as currently it is very hard to picture how the simultaneous turns will look like. Especially for a cooperative game how the players interact would really help.
@Paul
Does this mean Vengeance is currently in playtesting??
What I really miss, even with the new videos, is where the fun comes in. I'd love to see an *actual* turn, with specific (readable :P ) cards and interesting choices (and explanations about those choices) and combos. Feel free to artificially set up such a situation, as long as it's representative of the game being awesome.
Vengeance is not currently in playtesting, though playtesting for SotM isn't nearly as difficult and as long as GSF, as SotM has the established rules and has been in the work a lot longer so things that don't work out are a lot easier to spot. Though with the addition of 3 more heroes than normal it may take a little longer to work out. It usually takes between 2-3 months to playtest if I recall correctly. And if I can figure this out correctly, I would say it will start in May, possibly shortly after GSF kickstarter is done. As playtesting will end in July and that will give about 3 months for the printer and as long as there aren't any delays I think that will be enough time.
It's just my guess and using what has previously happened with the other expansions as a template. Plus a little wishful thinking on my behalf.
True, but I like to think playtesting hasn't started until it has reached the forum. Considering you guys probably are playtesting ideas almost constantly!
Side note: Paul I know you must have a lot of emails. I am wondering is the forum a quicker or kickstarter message a faster place to get in contact with you?