Savage Mana and Prime Warden Captain Cosmic's base power

Other Games SotM Game Engine
#1

Savage Mana allows you to put a target that Haka destroys under Savage Mana.

 

Prime Warden Captain Cosmic's base power allows you to shuffle a destroyed construct into your deck and then either draw or play a card.

 

If Haka destroys a construct, can it be shuffled into Captain Cosmic's deck and then placed under Savage Mana? Can it be placed under Savage Mana and then shuffled into Captain Cosmic's deck?

 

My intuition is that you have to choose one or the other of these, you don't get to do both, but I'm not 100% sure.

#2

I would think you'd have to choose which affects occurs first.  If it goes into Captain Cosmic's deck then it can't go under Savage Mana.  If it goes under Savage Mana it no longer has any text so it is not a Construct that Captain Cosmic can shuffle in his deck to get his power to trigger.  

#3

but doesn't the card need to specify that cards under it have no text. Because Savage Mana doesn't say anything about that

#4

No. All cards under other cards have no text. There are some cards that specify it for clarity, but it works for all cards.

#5

Spmething we know about whenever a card is destroyed, any destruction effect may still happen. Take Savage Mana versus Omnitron, if Haka does the killing blow to Omnitron, then you have the option to place him under Savage Mana, but Omnitron will still leave the game afterwards. If you choose to have Omnitron removed from the game first, he is no longer in the game to put under Savage Mana.

This is similar to Prime Warden Captain Cosmic's power, thanks to the "instead" on it. If it is first put under Savage Mana, you can totally shuffle it into PW Captain Cosmic's deck. However, if you choose to shuffle it first, then the "instead" would mean it wasn't actually destroyed, thus Savage Mana cannot trigger.

#6

If you choose to use PW Captain Cosmic's power to shuffle the Construct into his deck after the card has gone under Savage Mana then you defeated the purpose of putting it under Savage Mana.  Both may be able to trigger but you can't gain benefit from both effects.  Either Captain Cosmic has it shuffled into his deck and draws or plays a card or Haka has an additional card under Savage Mana.  

Edit: if this does work exactly like Omnitron and Savage Mana then the only outcome is that the construct is ultimately shuffled into Captain Cosmic's deck and then he gets to play or draw a card.  

#7

According to the Damage Dealing Timing worksheet*, PW Captain Cosmic triggers in step 17, and Savage Mana in step 18.  So PWCC has to decide first, then Haka gets the option to use Savage Mana if PWCC lets the destruction happen..

 

* Man, I gotta get around to adding external citations to that...

#8

According to the text of Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic, the timing worksheet is wrong.  Step 17 applies to cards that say "would be destroyed" (like Unforgiving Wasteland), indicating that the effect replaces the destruction.  Cards that say "is destroyed" (like PWCC) respond to the destruction rather than replace it, and are handled by step 18.  It could be that PWCC is intended to be a replacement effect but was worded as a response effect, in which case the text should be changed from "is" to "would be" (this has happened before).

#9

The wording on the PW Captain Cosmic power got updated with the foil release.  So part of this conversation is moot.  

#10

Is the updated text visible online?

#11

Yep!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1qirGypsqsWQnJBUHRGX2NTU2c/view

#12

Thanks.  I see the updated wording still says "is destroyed", putting it in step 18 of the timing worksheet.  This means that the power can stack, allowing multiple draws/plays per destroyed construct.  If this weren't the case, it would say "... you may shuffle it into your deck.  If you do, draw a card or play a card."

#13

Official word is it doesn't stack.

No, I can't link to it as it's on the Handelabra boards

#14

Better check again Matchstickman....

#15

Where?

I am looking at the thing that says PW CC shouldn't stack

#16

Also, it's in the fireside chats!

> The power of Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic cannot “stack.” For example, if he uses the power twice in a round and a construct card is destroyed, he gets to choose to draw a card or play a card just once.

#17

Sent you a PM Matchstickman

#18

That fireside chat entry is based on the old wording of Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic, and is invalidated by the new wording.