"Thunder, feel the thunder
Lightning and the thunder"
Our next guide is the "lightning and the thunder" himself: THE TEMPEST!
Part 1: https://sentinelsofthebloggerverse.blogspot.com/2019/05/i-was-lightning-before-thunder-tempest.html
Part 2: https://sentinelsofthebloggerverse.blogspot.com/2019/05/tempest-part-2.html
BHP here, haven't posted much lately but I have been reading threads on my phone. I've loved the discussion people have brought to Dark Crusader's other articles.
I don't get to play Tempest much... because he's always picked by DC or my brother. Awesome hero. Reliable self-card draw, obscene damage output, and god-like Field Control. Oh, and that Best Healing Power Ever thing. I'm glad DC added that in at the end--in the original draft, I thought he hammered home Tempest as only for dealing damage. Of course, you always want to with him, but slapping on Otherworldly Resilience and spamming Cleansing Downpour every turn is a legit strategy while still getting in massive damage via One-Shots. I also love that Electrical Storm is an auto 3 damage on the villain with Gene-Bound Shackles in play. Visionary WISHES she could do that.
I particularly liked the combo section on this article. I haven't played with Omnitron-X and Tempest in the same game yet, gotta rectify that.
I would still gladly play Prime Wardens Tempest. Get the armor out, the Cleansing Downpour, and a One-Shot all in one turn for only 6 damage, heal back 2. That's a single turn to set up. Requires having those cards, of course, but entirely doable. The WORST CARD actually becomes worth using with that variant.
Something else I added in the final draft of this synergy section was "Freedom Five Bunker." When I added Omnitron-X I realized that F5 Bunker could also allow top deck plays so I had to add him in.
No mention of Argent Adept, Captian Cosmic, PW Fanatic, or Grandpa Legacy in the partners section? Tempest loves getting extra power uses regardless of which weather you're making him throw out. Cleansing Downpour in particular can turn a team practically invulnerable with a good powerbounce setup. I've had it heal as much as 10 HP per character in a full round of turns, and that's just with AA and CC enabling him while trying to unlock PWAA in the digital game!
This got me thinking...3 damage for each card play hurts like blazes, but - what if it didn't? Captain Cosmic or Argent Adept can help out with some extra armor, or any of several heroes or cards can redirect damage to themselves or even to a villain target. That kind of setup has a cost as well, of course, but it could turn PW Tempest into a real monster!
Oh, it would also make Aquatic Correspondence and Localized Hurricane must-play cards, just to keep enough playable cards in hand.
Tempest already can reduce the damage by 2 with his own cards, so an Energy Bracer or a Counterpoint Bullwark can reduce it to 0. It’s a decent nova though even with that I find myself rarely using it myself unless someone’s making him draw like gas. Really I just use the varient because it has the most HP and it just looks cool.
Hopefully Constructive Critiques/Commentary
Under Lightning Slash, you say "always use this card when you get it." I don't think there's really any card that deserves that rating because there are always edge cases (playing Fleet of Foot is usually a no-brainer because it replaces itself and has "play a card" on it, but some opponents punish you for drawing or prevent you from doing so), but Lightning Slash is several deviations more board-state specific than that. It's great single target damage, but great single target damage isn't always what you need.
I'd also contest that Otherworldly Resilience should necessarily be 5/5 because Fortitude is 5/5. Legacy can tank with Lead from the Front, has two extremely strong cards that inflict damage on him, and one of those cards leaves him the only hero on the team who can take damage, so reducing damage to Legacy often results in greater overall team durability. Tempest is not a tank, so a point of DR doesn't fulfill the same role in his toolbox. You could independently decide that it's still 5/5, but it doesn't follow that because it's 5/5 on Legs it should be so on Tempest.
More generally, I think a focus shift from "this card is good, this card is bad" to "this card addresses this specific boardstate/enemy well" would make your guides stronger. Many cards have niche situations where they are amazing, identifying and discussing these gives other players much more actionable intel than simply listing your take on cards overall strength. Into the Stratosphere, for example, is very flexible (in that it can hit ongoings and minions alike), it makes enemy cards that take place at the beginning of the enemy turn into dead beats ("what's that, Channel the Eclipse? You read 'Dawn punches herself in the face again this turn?'"), and it's really nice at dealing with cards that you don't want in play AND you don't want to destroy (e.g. Forced Deployment). Even stalling varies widely in its usefulness from enemy to enemy - kicking a thug card back onto the top of Chairman's deck so that he redraws it instead of an Underboss that would just play another thug card is a much better turn for you.
Combo stuff
Under the Scholar bit, Dark Conductor Argent Adept also plays stuff off the top of people's decks, Vernal Sonata lets him put stuff on top of people's decks, and Inventive Prep's out-of-turn card plays lets this whole thing happen much more often (as well as bypassing Know When To Hold Fast's downside and resulting in another +1 card since you aren't skipping your draw phase) , so he definitely belongs in that discussion as well. He actually combos extremely well with both Scholar and Tempest together because Vernal Sonata cannot target itself but you can Reclaim Sonata and Sonata Reclaim, and you'd much rather use Don't Dismiss Anything for playing the top of a deck than you would loading it. With these two together, you have huge control over what Don't Dismiss Anything plays - with one of these recursion tools known to be on top of a deck, you can target that character for Don't Dismiss Anything first and then control what other cards get flipped, including ANOTHER recursion tool. This is the "Animate Dead deck" of SotM, fitting for Dark AA.
I discussed combo options for double recursion in exhaustive/ing detail awhile ago on Steam, it only gets stronger with Dark AA's ability to play off the top of decks because Don't Dismiss Anything's playable position now includes the top of the Scholar's deck even without including Omnitron-X in the team. My guess is that Malpractice Dr Medico probably round out your optimal team for recursion abuse, since spamming Don't Dismiss Anything along with Lifeforce of Will is going to be pretty bonkers and the Malpractice ability combos nicely with the healing that AA/Tempest/Scholar can crank out .
Edits: sorry powerhound... spelling, clarity.
Prime Wardens Tempest was, for a while, one of the top heroes in the Stats Project (below only Legacy, Greatest Legacy, and F5 Tachyon). Even at full cost, the opportunity gain of an extra setup card can often be worth it, but if you can reduce the damage, it's nuts.
Freedom Six Tempest is niche, but can be amazing situationally. He can destroy his cards wherever they are, so if they're stolen by La Capitan or Chokepoint (on her flip side only), or put face-down by Santa Guise, they're still eligible. Use it to dig for one of his other powers, or combine with Gene-Bound Shackles and Vicious Cyclone for 9 auto-damage a round.
Speaking of the Vicious Cyclone engine, you missed that this is one main use of Localized Hurricane. Imagine if the power read "Deal up to 2 targets 3 Projectile damage each. Draw 2 cards and discard 2 cards. Deal the main villain an additional 6 damage." Because that's what it turns into. Sure, the vulnerability is an issue, but it can be mitigated, and the best way to prevent damage is to win faster.
I totally agree on the synergy with Argent Adept and Captain Cosmic. I normally dislike CC, but Dynamic Syphon and Cleansing Downpour make for a nearly indestructible team (including CC's otherwise-fragile constructs). And you missed the biggest "healing" synergy of all: Malpractice Dr. Medico. A team centered around Cleansing Downpour and Red Right Hand can kill Ultimate Akash'Bhuta (200 HP) in two rounds flat. (I've done it.)
As for Xtreme PW Tempest, his power is hard to use on Huginn, but you missed two big ones: La Paradoja Magnifica and Kaargra's gladiators. Preventing a card play is huge, and some of the gladiators, especially Idesa the Adroit, are well worth using the power to shut down. (Losing Squall against Kaargra is bad if you have damage buffs, but that's what Grievous Hailstorm is for.)
Not sure why Parse is here as a recommended damage-buffer. Her buffs are short-lived and/or single-use, and not especially useful with Tempest's mass damage. Argent Adept's Syncopated Onslaught is worth a call-out, IMO.
Point # 1: If you or I have to find a tiny number of instances to prove that a card isn’t worth playing then I don’t think that should count against the card. I play as Tempest a lot and I’m having difficulty thinking of times when using Lightning Slash was a bad move. Sure there are times when I’d rather use another card, but even in that scenario “Lightning Slash” is a great go-to card and it gets used pretty quickly. It’s easy to think of situations where “Lightning Slash” is useful. Since Tempest is meant to be a damage dealer first, having a card that deals a lot of damage without a drawback is a huge positive.
Point # 2: I think you and I have a difference in perspective on what constitutes the usefulness of damage reduction. You seem to be arguing that it’s only useful for characters (in this case, Legacy) that fill the role of a tank. I’m coming at it from the perspective of “this will keep you alive which lets you use your hero longer.” It all stems back to what the ultimate purpose of Damage Reduction is: Keeping your hero(es) alive.
“Otherworldy Resistance” does that just as well as Legacy’s “Fortitude.” Just because Tempest doesn’t fill the role of “tank” doesn’t change the fact that “Otherworldly Resistance” is keeping him alive. Villains have to deal damage in order to win. If they can’t do that, then they can’t win. Yes, nitpicky exceptions like Wager Master exist that don’t always rely on damage to win, but they are exceptions, not the rule. Reducing the damage they take prevents your hero from being incapacitated. Consistently reducing villain damage is always a good thing.
Point # 3: If a card is useful in a broad variety of situations then it deserves to be ranked higher than a card that’s only good in a limited variety of situations. Being “amazing in niche situations” is nice, but what about the situations where it’s not amazing? I think it’s very useful to point out that a card whose usefulness is limited is not as good as a card that will be consistently helpful. I would rather have a card that’s useful in most situations, as opposed to a card that’s only being amazing in niche ones. 5 / 5 cards are cards that are going to see use a lot because they’re going to be useful against the vast majority of villains. If I can only think of a tiny number of situations where a card isn’t useful, then it did something right.
As far as “actionable intel” is concerned, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Do you mean stuff like “when villain plays X card use Y in response?” We are going to be doing guides on villains after we’re done with the heroes. That’s where stuff like that goes.
Point #1: If you don't literally mean your sentence "always use this card when you get it" then I have fewer objections. There are only a small number of edge-case instances where Fleet of Foot is not the best card to play from Tachyon's hand, but a card play is a bad move whenever a better move exists, and it's not hard to imagine lots of those in relation to Lightning Slash (which, as I said before, is significantly more senstive to board state in order to be the best play in your hand than is Fleet of Foot). Damage only matters when it accumulates enough to kill something, brings it below a "destroy a card with X health" threshold, triggers a response, or flips something, so if you're a significant distance away from killing the opponent then you're often better off controlling the board state in exchange for slightly less damage. For example, assuming you pop something back into the opponent's deck that you would prefer them to play again over some other card(s) in their deck, playing Into the Stratosphere instead of Lightning Slash against the villain buys you a tempo round for the price of a 3 damage differential - if stalling lets you keep a couple equipment pieces/ongoings in play just one turn longer you'll probably have paid for the difference in damage output. And Chain Lightning/Ball Lightning more obviously signify when they're better plays than Lightning Slash.
I also disagree with the idea that Tempest is meant to be a damage dealer "first" or that this changes anything about how his cards should be rated. He's really quite good at damage dealing, but his ongoing and environmental removal, Cleansing Rain, and Reclaim from the Deep separate him from Expat/Chrono-Rangers/Mr Fixer/KNYFE.
Point #2: I'm in no way arguing DR is only useful for a tank, but taking less damage when you get hit is clearly better if you get hit more often, yeah? If you are tanking for a team of 4 you're potentially benefitting from the DR you have 4x as much as a non-tank would (or more, if you're tanking for someone who also has DR). If you're taking hits for everyone then keeping you alive keeps everyone alive which will let all of them use their heroes longer (and also means that they can prioritize non-durability-related card plays and power uses, improving action economy). Legacy is likely to get much more mileage, in the form of total points of damage prevented by end of game, from Fortitude than Tempest is from Resilience.
Point #3: It's important to know when the best time to use a card which has much greater impact in markedly fewer situations, as when and how these cards are used matters a great deal (unlike the generically useful Lightning Slash that doesn't care whether it goes to the villain's dome on T3 or T4, although if you're hitting minions timing will often be more relevant). This is related to the actionable intel point - if you want to delay discussing a hero's options against specific villain cards (e.g. Into the Stratosphere's use against standard Progeny's Scion cards) until the villain guides that makes sense, but it's generically true that Into the Stratosphere is one of the few (the only?) ways in the game to remove something from the board without destroying it and therefore has significant interactions with villains can win/get stronger depending on what's in their trash (which is lots of them).
Point # 1: "but a card play is a bad move whenever a better move exists,"
I don't agree with this statement. I think it's more nuanced than that. With a character like Tempest, it's often a case of "good, better and best." Even if you don't play "the best" card (which is dependent on a host of variables) you're still benefitting. A card play is only bad when it doesn't help you out or solve a problem.
"Damage only matters when it accumulates enough to kill something, brings it below a "destroy a card with X health" threshold, triggers a response, or flips something, so if you're a significant distance away from killing the opponent then you're often better off controlling the board state in exchange for slightly less damage."
Damage is the way you go from Point A to Point Z. You can't reduce a villain's HP to 0 (which is the primary goal in the vast majority of cases in the game) without dealing that villain damage. Damage ALWAYS matters. Even if all you're doing is whittling the villain's HP from 70 - 65 you're still doing something important.
if stalling lets you keep a couple equipment pieces/ongoings in play just one turn longer you'll probably have paid for the difference in damage output.
"Into the Stratosphere" is a nice card, but it's not a long-term solution for anything unless it's combined with a deck manipulation card. There are usually better options available that will actually deal with the aforementioned problem at hand. For example, if you're worried that the villain is going to play an ongoing / equipment destruction card why not use a deck manipulation card like "Infrared Eyepiece" or "Extrasensory Awareness?" Why not use "Buffer Overflow" instead? If the villain's got an Ongoing why not blow it up instead? For the vast majority of ongoings, that's usually the better solution to the problem in the long term anyway.
I also disagree with the idea that Tempest is meant to be a damage dealer "first" or that this changes anything about how his cards should be rated. He's really quite good at damage dealing, but his ongoing and environmental removal, Cleansing Rain, and Reclaim from the Deep separate him from Expat/Chrono-Rangers/Mr Fixer/KNYFE.
23 of Tempest's 40 cards are designed to either deal damage (or buff it in the case of Gene-Bound Shackles, but it still counts toward my overall point). Yes, many of them have other effects besides dealing damage, but that doesn't change the fact that they deal damage (and many of them deal damage well). When over 50 % of your deck revolves around damage dealing I think it's safe to say that he's designed primarily to be a Bruiser. Now just because he has other roles that he can do well doesn't mean that his primary role isn't as a Bruiser. It is possible for a hero to have more than one role. So Tempest can be a Bruiser and a Medic and have major field control aspects to him. Most heroes in Sentinels have multiple roles.
Point # 2: Whether Legacy gets more mileage out of that card or not does not change the fact that Tempest also gets lots of mileage from Damage Reduction. As you stated earlier: "I'm in no way arguing DR is only useful for a tank," so "Otherworldly Resilience" is a must use card for Tempest, no? Because I would argue that it is.
Point # 3: "if you want to delay discussing a hero's options against specific villain cards (e.g. Into the Stratosphere's use against standard Progeny's Scion cards) until the villain guides that makes sense," I'm glad we're in agreement then.
but it's generically true that Into the Stratosphere is one of the few (the only?) ways in the game to remove something from the board without destroying it and therefore has significant interactions with villains can win/get stronger depending on what's in their trash (which is lots of them).
Am I missing something here? How many villains "get stronger depending on what's in their trash?"
There's what? The Baron Blade variant, Citizen Dawn and...who again? I get the feeling that there are a plethora of superior ways of dealing with those villains/cards, which is why I'm not super gung-ho about "Into the Stratosphere" as you seem to be. There's only a tiny number of cards that "Into the Stratosphere" is uniquely capable of dealing with (like Progeny's Scions or Forced Deployment) and even then it doesn't do much until you combine it with something else. I should add that "Forced Deployment" isn't really that big of a deal. I mean, Voss's minions are super easy to deal with. So even in that scenario that's not really THAT amazing for "Into the Stratosphere."
It seems to me like you're trying to argue that it's a much better card than I've given credit for. Perhaps you could show me the different scenarios where it's uniquely better than the solutions I described?
Point#1: possibly insoluble. Good better best, small medium large, tall venti grande. There was a better play available and it didn't get chosen.
You can't reduce a villain's HP to 0 (which is the primary goal in the vast majority of cases in the game) without dealing that villain damage.
That's true. I did not say "never do damage," though, just that it's often useful to do less now in order to improve the board state.
It is possible for a hero to have more than one role.
I agree, but roles are just labels we stick on them to describe in simple narrative terms the aggregate impacts of their cards. You said "Since Tempest is meant to be a damage dealer first, having a card that deals a lot of damage without a drawback is a huge positive" and to me that seems like a tautology that shouldn't impact how we evaluate Tempest's cards. Having a card that deals a lot of damage is a huge positive, his role doesn't change the evaluation at all - there is no "since."
Also, in the context of the reanimator combo team I posted above, I guarantee you that Reclaim is Tempest's best card, and his main role is not direct damage, it's combo enabler.
"Into the Stratosphere" is a nice card, but it's not a long-term solution for anything
Neither is Take Down unless it's perma-looped (and even then, it doesn't actually win the game for you by itself). But you gave Take Down 5/5 because "being able to slow a villain down helps give the player that extra push toward victory. In some cases, it buys the player time if they’re taking longer to get the proper setups and combos going." Take Down results in Legacy taking damage while Into the Stratosphere results in a villain taking damage. Take Down *does* work significantly better against enemies that can play more than one card per turn, but they both impact tempo similarly against opponents who play one card at a time. Take Down says to the villain "board state stays the same, your next card play is two turns from now" while Into the Stratosphere says "board state is -1 thing, that thing will be played again next turn, your next novel card play is two turns from now." Given that most villains have wild power fluctuations between cards in their decks (Citizen Spring vs Devastating Aurora), delaying one of these big cards even by a turn can make a huge difference (for example, if you got to keep Otherworldly Resilience, Fortitude, and Inspiring Presence in play just 1 turn longer).
Point#2: Not if you've delegated that task to someone else, no, he should do something else unless he doesn't have better cards available (which is most of them, if you've got a dedicated tank in play).
Point#3: Well, OG Baron Blade smashes the moon into the earth when enough stuff hits his trash, which is pretty strong, and while he's not that difficult his challenge and advanced modes can put the clock on you a bit harder. Apostate's Relic Spirits and Runes of Malediction like being able to find Relics and Demons in the trash. Chairman's bosses like thugs in the trash. Gloomweaver & his Chosen Disciples play zombies out of the trash, Vast Following plays Cultists or Relics from the trash. Ocular Swarms play top-decked manifestations *when* manifestations are destroyed, which is not caring about the trash but is caring about destroying things. Forced Deployment plays from the trash, and with several DR minions and/or Advanced Voss *is* a big deal for many teams.
Other situations: Gloomweaver's relics, Kaargra's gladiators, Apostate's Orb of Delirium, and several Citizens (Anvil, Truth) have hp pools that are difficult to deplete (due to size, DR, or a mix of the two). Some of these also protect other villain cards while they are out, and it can be much easier to remove them from the field, clear other things, and then let them return to an emptier board. (Edit: This, BTW, along with his excellent ongoing and environment removal, is another good reason to give Tempest 1st or 2nd position in your lineup - if he goes last, the villain card will get played again before any other hero has a chance to go, while if he goes first then his power phase and the other heroes turns will happen without the bounced card in effect).
Plague Rat smacks everyone when Infections are destroyed, not when they are bounced.
Late edits: formatting, clarification, Gloomweaver zombies.
If there are 10 or more minions in Voss' trash, and Forced Deployment comes out, and you can't kill Voss that turn, then correct me if I'm wrong but I think that "Into the Stratosphere" might be the only way to avoid losing the game.
...Or destroy Forced Deployment and then try to kill a bunch of minions before it hits the villain turn, but if there are a bunch of Guards it can be tough.
It’s also good at removing things from play without “destroying” them if you have Parse, Omni, DC Adept, Wraith, Vis, or KNYFE. Say you want to remove an underboss and the Operative’s there ready to punch hard or you want to get rid of some eyeballs without Infiniator potentally vomiting out his deck for the third time this match. It’s also notable for ignoring DR, HP, or card type. All it cares about is if it’s indestructable or not.
Voss’ character card entered play before Forced Deployment. The check for 10 or more minions in play happens before Forced Deployment destroys itself and brings minions out of the trash.
What you have to worry about is an Environment card that destroys Villain Ongoings.
I’m in agreement with others that Into The Stratosphere is undervalued in this guide. For villains that don’t play multiple cards it just means they repeat their last turn and I’ll always take up knowing what a villain will play. It’s a card I wish he had three or four copies of at times.
For Localized Hurricane it’s my go to power with Tempest. The card draw and targeted damage is great. I do like to have Otherworldy Resilience out with it to offset the damage increase and if I don’t have it I’m much more likely to get to it through use of the power. Having more options is great and it means I’m less likely to use a turn playing Aquatic Correspondence.
Into the Stratosphere is a great way to nullify damage reductions for a round. For instance, if Corrupted Effigy and Runes of Malediction are in play, you can push the Runes to destroy the Effigy. Similar situations arise with the Matriarch's cohorts, or Iron Legacy's ongoings, and more.
You can also combo Stratosphere with any ability to touch the top card of the villain deck to just move a card from in play to somewhere else without destroying it. Tired of Citizen Anvil bringing Hammer back from the trash? Stratosphere Hammer and then use Infrared Eyepiece to put him on the bottom of the deck. Not enough damage on the field to destroy Gloomweaver's relic or Voss' flagship? Stratosphere + Timeshift puts it right in the trash, equivalent to whatever that remaining HP was of damage.
A lot of people mentioned some good points about Into the Stratosphere, and I agree with them, and don't won't to repeat them. However, I wanted to mention a point that I like about Into the Stratosphere that I don't think has been mentioned:
I vastly prefer cards that allow me to react to villain cards when I need to instead of forcing me to be proactive about it. Do I need to "waste" a turn playing Bee Bot now in case Apocalypse comes out, or can I just wait until if it comes out, put it back on top, then play Bee Bot to deal with it. This becomes even more true if you have a way to discard the top card of the villain deck after Tempy's turn. Why use Infrared Eyepiece every turn ("wasting" many powers) to avoid a card, when you can just wait until the card shows up then deal with it.
PS I am not trying to say that one card is stronger than another, just pointing out some strength's of Into the Stratosphere.
Another villain-specific use for Into the Stratosphere that came up in a recent game of mine: Miss Information's Explosion in the Lab and Threat to the President aren't ongoings, so IIRC you're limited to Into the Stratosphere, Cedistic Dissonant, or End of Days to remove them outside of accomplishing their painful requirements. And the targets she puts into play are pretty durable as well, even outside of Misplaced Memo.
Obviously, you dont want to stall against her initial form because she's often breaking you down faster than you can build up, but it's a solid play against her once she's flipped.