Spite is just the worst

Other Games SotM Game Engine
#21

I just finished a game against Spite, funnily enough. Fanatic, Setback, Skyscraper, and Mister Fixer. There’s a lot of damage redirection/reduction/mitigation in that set-up, so before he got his final drug out, the one that gives him armor, I was actually managing to stay ahead. Got him down to 36 HP. What really sucked was every time a Good Samaritan came out, the card that I drew as condition of putting him into the Safe House killed him. Happened every time. I hated it so much. By the time he flipped, there were only two cards left in the deck, and I only had two victims (“Innocent Bystanders,” if you were curious) beneath it.

The game would have been a lot easier if the environment, Omnitron-IV, hadn’t kept destroying Mister Fixer’s “Hoist Chains” every time I got one into play. As it was, on the final round, Fanatic and Skyscraper both died. Spite had 7 HP, Setback had 6 HP, and Mister Fixer had 12. I couldn’t get out a Tool or a Style that would bump Mister Fixer’s damage for my life, so Setback made the ultimate sacrifice of playing “Cause and Effect” with 14 unlucky tokens.

Was it fun? Eh, I guess. It’s odd to sweat for a villain who isn’t Iron Legacy or Progeny, anyway. But yeah, I can see how after certain Drug combinations come out–armor and punishing players for using powers would be the worst–it just would not be fun to be able to do nothing but try to get all your Equipment and Ongoings into play and otherwise just sit there taking it until he allows you to hurt him. Sometimes it’s at least a little bit funny, like when he makes you put cards back into your hand so you take back ones like “Absolution” or “Inspiring Presence,” and in my last game it worked out in Setback’s favor because he could keep taking back “Looking Up” before he could burn his own brain out with it, but usually not.

#22

 

He has a maximum of 80, but starts with 60. A different way of putting it is that he takes 20 damage during setup.

This is because there are plenty of ways for him to heal on the first turn. If he would destroy environment cards on the front, for example, he heals instead.

#23

I really hate to be a bummer with a game I love.

In tabletop, I've been steering the other players away from picking Spite for months.  Forgot why.

So it comes around to 1:30 AM, wife just woke up to prod me to bed, but less than 5 minutes ago I threw down 19 cards on a Haka of Battle, whacked the giblets out of Spite, and watched him regenerate to full the very next turn with 2 drugs up.

Blah blah planning blah...  I wanted to bust some heads right before bed on a work night, not stare obsessively until he hit critical mass & pounce.

I guess sleeping is better than peppering my search history with "sentinels spite worst villain" "sentinels spite slog" "sentinels of the multiverse does anybody actually like spite" "spite worst @$*#* villain"

Guess I'll be replacing him on random computer play as well.   At least the rest of the expansion was decent.

#24

My first experience with Spite was similarly frustrating.

#25

I played a couple of Spite games in the app this week.

It totally confirmed to me why we rerandomise if he turns up in G+ games. I love him thematically, but find him no fun at all to actually fight. This makes me sad.

#26

This is why I love double-Stun-Bolting him with the Wraith and having Smoke Bombs out if she's the lowest hp. Damage, what damage? ;)

Okay so we play with only three heroes so there's less damage to nerf but it still works out more often than not ;).

#27

Well, I enjoyed my last game against him, but that’s because I had The Ultimate Target, the Neurotoxin Dart Thrower, andThe Masada in play and we dropped Spite on his front side.

i completely agree! So I was thinking about what I would do to try and make him more fun, but preserve the theme. Here’s what I came up with:

  • Compound Omicron: replace all text with "redirect the first damage that would be dealt to Spite each turn to the environment target with the highest HP."
  • Mind-Phyre: replace all text with "at the start of the villain turn, destroy one environment card that is not a target. At the end of the villain turn, play the top card of the environment deck." (I'm considering changing that last condition to "when an environment target is destroyed.")
  • Spite, Transhuman Serial Killer: change his flip condition to "4 or more Drug cards are in play."
  • Spite, Drug-Wracked Monstrosity: add "when flipped to this side, destroy all environment cards."
  • Forced Entry: change "all" to "H-1."

My rationale is that Spite is mainly boring because of what he does to the environment, with the additional secondary contributor that his flipside is always the same. So, I’d try to make it more like he’s hiding in the environment. Still, when he flips, I like the implication that the battle narrows down to just Spite and the heroes, so I put in that destroy-the-environment thing. I changed his flip condition not to make him easier, but to make him different each time. And, finally, while Forced Entry is and should be That Card, putting that cap on it gives the heroes a chance to make up their lost ground (at some cost to themselves).

We haven’t tested this out too much - last time, we clearly didn’t need it - but I’m optimistic…

#28

After playing a lot of Rook City in the App lately, I've come to appreciate the power of Stun Bolt.  Against Spite, Matriarch, or the Chairman, it's almost a necessity.  In fact, I've started rating heroes as to their "stun potential".

Wraith: 1 (W has lots of own-deck manipulation, so it's easy to get at least one Stun Bolt in play; decent chance of Throat Jab.)

Visionary: 0.5 (Twist the Ether)

Tachyon: 0.5 (Good chance of drawing a Hypersonic Assault, but it's just a One-Shot.)

Mr. Fixer: 0.5 (Hoist Chain is repeatable, but MF doesn't have the card churn to reliably get it into play.)

Expatriette: 0.25 (Cryogenic Rounds are effectively one-shots, but E has some means of getting them back into circulation.)

Haka: 0.25 (Ground Pound is great, but expensive.)

I wouldn't go up against Advanced versions of Spite, Matriarch or Chairman without at *least* a total of 1 Stun Rating, ideally more.

#29

I like to put Liquid Nitrogen Rounds on the Assault Rifle. Hit the villain with the first shot, then Fixer Or NightMist redirects the next shot for -2. Or have bith redirect for -3.

#30

Fixer also has Grease Gun, so I'd probably bump him up a bit.

#31

I think the easiest way to fix Spite is just to take away the backlash from the drug that punishes you for using powers. The discarding the top five cards of your deck is fine, but the two damage reprise is a bit excessive. Most heroes don't have a base power that deals more than two damage, and without buffs, the most damage a hero can do with a single power is four. Four damage is the bare minimum needed to just break even, doing a total damage of two damage to Spite and being dealt two in return. This gets even worse if his DR drug is out. I think if you just removed the damage punishment for using powers, you wouldn't have nearly so many games where it feels like all you can do is wait for Spite to flip.

#32

He also deals three damage if his damage-buff drug is out.

At least that drug has the "put something back into someone's hand" part, which is usually kind of annoying but one time we had it cycling Inspiring Presence (when Legacy was first in turn order) so everyone kept getting healed by a point. Bloody Knuckles is a good one as well, especially since that drug goes off at the start of Spite's turn, before he actually starts dealing damage - then you only need to worry about getting hit by whatever comes out on the environment's turn before Spite does away with that as well :D.

#33

I feel like I wait for Spite to flip while he hurts me, doing nothing but occasionally saving victims and hoping he doesn't decide to make the Safe House's name a lie and make my sacrifices pointless. At his own whim he gets all the drugs out, which can take forever, and then I can start actually playing the game.

Then of course he kills me because I have to audacity to need powers to do, y'know, fun stuff, and damage.

I am just not seeing how he's in any way enjoyable to play. I feel like my decisions don't matter, and all games with him play exactly the same way except for the varying amount of time before he flips.

And I really want to like him. :/

#34

Destroying him before he flips is far more satisfying. Try doing that =)

#35

The first time we played him, we managed to get a ton of people in the Safe House, and he never broke them out before he flipped. We whittled him down on his front side, and then when he flipped, the Safe House exploded in his face, and he died. We thought it was pretty fun, and a cool idea for a villain and a mechanic to support that theme.

I've played him on the app several times since then, and each time it has been the same: We do everything we can, he flips right after emptying the Safe House, and we kill ourselves trying to find any way possible to damage him enough to overcome the healing he's giving himself when he hits us.

I've lost every game against him on the app, and he's been at max HP every time.

#36

He doesn't heal on the flip side.

#37

Agreed.

#38

Try Challenge Mode. It was the original version of Spite anyways.

#39

No…

Nonononononononononononononononono!

No max health=bad!

#40

Before playtesting determined that stunk… :slight_smile: