Variant Armor rule

Games Sentinel Comics RPG
#1

Hi all. I’m writing to have some feedback on a variant rule on armor i’m toying with.
I am somewhat unsatisfied with the standard rule on armao, which basically states that armor reduces damage by 1 point in the Green zone, 2 in the Yellow and 3 in the Red.
I find this unrealistic even for a superhero setting, since it makes armor more efficient the more it is battered and damaged. Moreover, unless I am missing something, this flattens any difference between a common kevlar D6 and the mighty Hulkbuster D12.
Therefore, I have been thinking about a variant armor rule that is arguably more complex than the standard rule but (i hope) is also more enjoyable.

VARIANT ARMOR RULE
Whenever an Attack deals you damage, compare the size of the effect die to your armor power die size. If the Attack uses multiple dice for effect, compare the largest Attack die size to your armor die size
• If the Attack die size is larger than your armor die size. You suffer full damage.
• If both dice are of the same size, you suffer half damage
• If the Attack die size is lower than your armor die size, you suffer only 1 irreducible damage.

Note: if you are wondering why the 1 irreducible damage, this is to enforce the underlying game design of having any die roll that does not come up witha a negative result still deliver some effect.

Optional: Ablative and Shutdown armors
Some armora get increasingly less efficient as they suffer damge, while others keep going until they are overcome, at which point they fail suddenly and completely. An example of the first type could be a knight’s armor, while the second type could be represented by a force field.
• When the Attack die size is greater than or equal to the ablative armor die size, reduce the armor die size by one step.
• When the Attack die size is greater than the shutdown armor, you lose the armor power.
• In both cases, at the end of the scene you may narrate how you regain your full armor power die.

Optional: Regenerating Armor
Some armor, like biogenetic armor or telekinetic fields, can easily regenerate from damage as long as the character is conscious. In this cases, the power die may also be stepped back up during the scene.
• If your armor power die is currentlu smaller than its otginal size and you suffered no damage since your last turn, as a free action roll a d10. If the result is 6+, increase your current armor power die by one step.

#2

I think you are missing two main points of the system.

One, even if armor would normally work worse once it gets damaged, GYRO means that the heroes get more heroic as the situation gets more dire. Adrenaline helps them shake off more damage, mechanical systems hold together just long enough to squeeze off one last shot, or a little bit of “percussive maintenance” saves the day.

Two, the Power/Quality/Status system is meant to be simple. Check the ability, roll the dice, subtract the hit points. Complex simulationism is best left for another game system. if this kind of realism is what you’re looking for in a game system, SCRPG wasn’t meant for you.

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#3

I wouldn’t really call the suggested house rule complex simulationism myself (it’s actually quite simple on the basic level, and the optional ideas don’t complicate it that much) but it definitely doesn’t mesh well with the rest of the game, which is a whole raft of issues as spelled out below. Also, discouraging someone from playing on the basis of disliking one part of the engine might not be the best approach, especially when that one part is the family of damage deduction abilities. I wouldn’t call them the best thing in the game engine by a long shot, and do feel a little odd for modeling “invulnerable” hero types - which obviously can’t be invulnerable because that makes for bad gaming, of course. The rules work (which the house rule doesn’t) but they often feel a bit ineffective to me and could have used better definitions of what “physical” and “energy” damage types are meant to be.

Specific concerns with the house rule as presented:

  • As said, the suggested house rule has a flat effect that doesn’t change based on GYRO zone. The original -1/-2/-3 G/Y/R mechanic scales up as the scene advances or the hero takes damage. By having a flat effectiveness, the variant will stop damage evenly throughout the scene, which will both delay a hero’s advancement through GYRO zones while also not improving as the situation gets more desperate. That’s pretty much the inverse of how hero abilities work. There are two other broad types of damage mitigation - defensive reactions and all-or-nothing immunities. Defensive reactions don’t scale directly, but they rarely appear as Green abilities, and the best of them are in Red where they’re also most important. The all-or-nothing Inherents are the strongest option but very narrow in their application, and even they scale by having the Yellow and Red ones gain ever-better riders on the basic Green “take no damage from energy/element type” form.

  • The basic mechanics of the variant seems severely overpowered. If an Attacker cannot put at least one die in their pool that at least equals whatever power you’re using for your “armor” ability, they can never do more than one damage to you no matter what they roll. With a d10 “armor” that reduces the vast majority of minions and some lieutenants to 1 damage. With a d12, almost all minions and most lieutenants are similarly nerfed, as are 12 of the 18 villain Approaches and 9 out of 14 Archetypes, although combinations make that a bit less harsh than it looks. But only a bit, and all of those 9 Archetypes will struggle to maintain a d12 status die to contribute meaningfully here. Even against something that can include at least one d12, you’ll still never take more than half damage from anything your armor affects (assuming it still has the same “physical or energy or both” the RAW forms of the abilities do) and you’ll only take a piddling one irreducible if the effect die/dice don’t include a d12 due to the way the roll went. And of course even villains with d12s to work with won’t always have them in their offensive ability pools unless your GM is minimaxing all the time.

  • While that’s an extreme case, a fairly tame d8 “armor” is likely to prevent much more damage than the best reaction can expect to when faced with more than one Attack per turn, continues to automatically halve or minimize the damage from many minions/lieutenants, and unlike the all-or-nothing immunity Inherents it works on broad categories of damage, not just one element/energy type. Even a pathetic d6 “armor” will still halve the damage from all those d6 minions and badly degraded lieutenants. This is just an overall superior option to avoid damage most of the time.

  • Adding to that, the variant mechanic has weird effects on mods. Since it only cares about the size of the best effect die, it effectively halves any bonuses if the “armor” and effect die/dice are tied in size, and bonuses do nothing if the “armor” is superior, just dinging away a single irreducible damage. Even if you somehow managed (through multiple penalties and bad rolls) a zero or negative effect die result that was smaller than the “armor” die will still do that chip damage, but one that was the same size or larger would do half of nothing or nothing, respectively. That’s just screwy, even if it’s unlikely to happen.

  • Finally, I’ve been talking about all this in terms of how it effects PC abilities, but villains have loads of damage reduction abilities too, and they come in a wider variety of forms than heroes have. Some are just flat constant reduction that works against every damage type, other are GYRO scaled, one only looks at personal Health zone, and the Titan’s “Gnats” ability is status-dependent. If all of them are going to be similarly altered to compare "armor’ and Attack die sizes there’s some work to do. All the concerns about how overpowered the variant will also apply to villains in spades, since they have larger Health pools (just try whittling down a d12 “armor” villain’s 55 Health one irreducible point at a time), can assign dice to abilities more freely than PCs can, and their average ability uses Max rather than Mid for effect, making punching PC armor a lot more likely regardless of GYRO.

Just don’t see how this can work as written. The basic concept (compare an offensive die size to a defensive one) is fine, but it doesn’t fit well with the rest of the game. Something written from the ground up to make use of general purpose “evade” and “damage soak” ratings could work with it, but that’s just not the SCRPG. Damage just isn’t the enemy in this game, healing is really generous, and starting a fight beat up from the last one feels as much like a reward as a punishment for many character builds.

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#4

Thank you. This was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Not only you offered some great insights on the design concepts of the game, but also pointed out most of the pitfalls of my idea. The second point expecially, since I realizeq now that I did not take into account minions and liutenants.

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#5

A somewhat too harsh a conclusion for a reply to somone who took the time and effort to ask for feedback, don’t you think?

#6

NP. Sorry I couldn’t be more concise, but there was a lot to address.

#7

I wouldn’t read into tone. However, what they wrote is also said similarly by Chief_Lackey_Rich as part of their post.

I feel I understand what you’re going after but I’d almost suggest that be a temporary buff given to heroes for a big battle as basically a health increase and not one that is an innate ability.

1 Like
#8

@Chief_Lackey_Rich my reply on harshness was addressed to Mindweaver. Your contribution was spotless.

#9

@Powerhound_2000 that’s an excellent suggestion! Maybe a single scene powered up that could be activated by spending a collection. Thank you.

#10

Perhaps make it an alternate Hero Point award? How much it would cost depends on the mechanics, but there’s enough variety of them to look at for a guesstimate.