Villain Overcomes and Challenges

Games Sentinel Comics RPG
#1

I swear I asked this already, but the mediocre search feature here didn't turn up anything.

Obviously, a scene can be built with Challenges and you can have a villain on-scene *be* a Challenge rather than a fighter.

In-scene, heroes can use Overcomes to resolve Challenges.

Twists can create new Challenges.

How about this one: Could a villain do an Overcome to *create* a Challenge for the heroes? 

I'm thinking here of "villain shoots his blast at the school bus and sets it on fire."  If he succeeds at his Overcome, it creates a Challenge.

Has anyone done this or something like this? How have you had villains use actions to create problems for heroes other than punching them in the face while not resorting to mere narrative fiat?

 

#2

I've typically done with it with villains who already have Masteries. Since they can't fail, the number of boxes changes.

If they roll a 1-3, it's a one or two box challenge. if they roll a 4-7, it's a three or four box challenge If they roll a 8-11, five or six box challenge. 12+, seven box challenge.

 

Because if your villain is naturally rolling high, then they'll of course be creating more intense challenges.

#3

Wow.  That's even tougher than I would have thought.  Have you allowed it as an option for villains without Masteries? Something like, "1-3: fail, 4-7: 1-2 boxes w/a Minor Twist, 8-11: 2-3 boxes, 12+: 4-5 boxes"?

#4

If my villains don't have Masteries, then I basically create an environment challenge and the villain gains twists exactly as if they were a hero rolling an overcome. The reason for the difference being that Masteries gurantee success, so my villains with Masteries typically don't show up outside of Difficult scenes, and I restrict them to creating 1 challenge or advancing the scene tracker 1 box once per scene.

#5

Search feature’s not so mediocre anymore!

I wanted to dig this thread up and ask, how are people using Villain Overcomes now that the game’s been out for a while? I honestly have a hard time wrapping my head around anything beyond “advance the scene tracker”, and yeah, you shouldn’t do that more than once a scene. What can the villains work toward that could generate twists?

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#6

In one game I had the PCs get distracted by a villain’s ploy while she went behind their backs to capture the person they were guarding. They were all grumbling until I pointed out she had the mastery that let her automatically overcome situations involving capturing people or territory, at which they were like “Oh, I guess that makes sense.”

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#7

An idea i have for my game if i ever get around to running is this-
One group of villains will have a “floating bonus environment” and they will make overcomes to throw environment twists at the heroes
This is based on the idea of using environment twists to represent beings beyond mortal scale.
The villains are the “Dank Gawds” cosmic star gods manifest on Earth in modern forms… Too modern, they became tropes and memes, cartoonish exaggerated stereotypes in stead of mythic archetypes. The “Chained god” and “Sleeping eye” has become a woman staring at her smart phone ignoring the world around her. If Tr0ll can make an overcome to get her attention she will roll a 3d12 pool on the environment twist options. if he fails he will take it on the chin because she is busy.
Tr0ll of course claims to have been Utgard Loki in the ancient stories, but would you believe him?

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#8

While my game ended with the lockdown’s start…

I’ve used overcomes to shut down hero powers, requiring an overcome to restart them. (EG: A warding ritual vs the ghost-powered hero. A wall of flame vs Absolute Zero.)
I’ve used villain overcomes to advance the timer, allowing an overcome to cancel that, but noting that that’s no longer a standard option. Timer tricks will remain in my repertoire… for limited use.

#9

aramis, did you find that using Overcomes to shut down hero powers was good for the pacing of a scene? Basically, the villain loses one of a limited number of actions to stop a hero from using one of theirs.

#10

It’s varied, drkrash1969…

As a general rule, it’s acceptable when the fiction is suitable. More importantly, the conditions I consider prerequisite to using it:

  • the overcome to restart it will require some prep to enact
  • the power shut down makes sense to be shut down.
  • there’s a timer on.

Note that a villain’s overcome is a couple minions’ boosts, plus the villain’s overcome.

If the PC’s do likewise, the overcome is going to be pretty easy… but it’s not one action.
If the Player instead decides to break out alone, it’s usually going to add a twist.

If the scene has no good reason for time tracker overcomes, and the scene victory condition is to get something done in the allocated tracker time, it’s quite tension building.

And sometimes, the players simply drop back and kick deep, using other powers in new and interesting ways.

I’ve used it on one of my players a number of times… The character Rad Blaster neé Rad Man, is a blaster, cop, paranormal investigator, with nuclear powers. My one collection was Rad Man vs the Watermellon Man… Literally the day we were to talk rewrites and start collection 2 was the last day the store was open for gaming. (Given that I’m 50+, and my players were 3 highschoolers and my 20yo daughter… running it online was not going to be a particularly acceptable option to one of them. Plus, given their various learning difficulties, and my use of manipulatives in tracking, it just wasn’t something I was prepared to do.)

Rad Man has a gun, a car, and the ability to cook himself off in the red zone… His signature “Going Chernobyl” line is followed by all the others fleeing to safety then he goes and kills almost all of the minions, and most of the lieutenants. So, when I get to red first, shutting him down gives me a 40% chance or so of him not being able to do it before the others can. And I use the Lieutenants boosted by the minions to hold him down…
Doing it in the green? Not worth it. Stopping him from clearing the field on his first turn in Red? oh, heck, yeah! Doing so on Rad Man vol 2 Iss 6 scene 3 of 4? Priceless! (Rad Man Vol 1 was his starter collection.) The WmM was taken care of in scene 4…

Likewise, in Justice Comics #740, shutting down Tachyon’s superspeed by “too many bodies” lead to a very interesting solution. Absolute Zero and Legacy tag teamed to clear a path from the elevator to the control room. (I’m being a bit vague to avoid spoilers)

It’s a good tool when used appropriately. Stop the power that makes the mop-up easy, not the ones that are just a single action vs a single target.

Plus, remember: Overcomes are often harder to deal with since they’re really narrative focused. The overcome is the choice when the action has enough potential to go wrong, but should have a narrative limit instead of a bonus or penalty.

And for the minions? Andvar, the illusion projecting alien, used his d8 teeth to chop rad-blaster free in time to blast the Watermellon Van into atoms… and didn’t even drop from it. (but did come close.)

That’s a story win even if it’s weak on the mechanics.

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#11

Interesting. Thanks.

(I too am 50+, but all my players are 40+.)

#12

No problem.

Fundamentally, it boils down to “follow the fiction” with Overcome being the tool for shutdowns that matter… and unless the fictional state is addressed, the game state doesn’t change. So, restarting your power needs a fictional excuse.