Who's still on pre-order?

Games Prime War
#21

Lore Forge Games posted an update four months ago, link below But yeah, info has been real thin. And updates only seem to come when we ask for it.

I expect GTG has been focused on the long overdue Legends Of Sleepy Hollow since they had to take over development from Dice Hate Me. Pure speculation on my part but I’d wager most GTG playtesting has focused on that so there likely hasn’t been much feedback to LFG about Prime War. And then there’s Sentinels RPG to get out although chapters are being shared to backers for that so it’s moving along. Also Christopher Badell has to do dialogue branches for the computer game Sentinels Of Freedom that they’re doing with Underbite Games. Then there’s all the other works in progress. So don’t hold your breath I guess?

#22

Ah, thanks. I think I missed that update. At least it sounds like things are still progressing.

I am aware of all the other work, I guess I just thought we would be seeing more updates as Lore Forge would be able to focus on the game. I guess I am just disappointed with how long this has dragged on for this project and how it was handled. I know other projects are ongoing, but for a game they collected pre-orders for 5 years ago. Still looking forward to the game.

#23

Updates only seem to come after we push for them. The latest update only came after I posted a query on their Aug 25 entry, followed up on their FB post a month later due to no response on the blog, and then DMed LFG on FB when there was no response to the FB post query. Similarly previous blog posts only show up when either LFG or GTG are asked about the status.

As far as I can tell the LFG guys have other full time work they do and game development is a spare time thing. They addressed the interaction process between them and GTG in their latest blog post. So if most playtest resources at GTG have been involved in Legends Of Sleepy Hollow then LFG likely hasn't had a lot of feedback to do additional work with. This is only speculation and conjecture on my part. 

As I know LoSH has been a major retooling for GTG (I've been following its progress in the KS Posts even though I'm not a backer) I expect that's why Paul Bender hasn't posted a State of GTG in months, all focus being on completing that project. I wish Prime War would get a fraction of that attention, but it seems evident that regardless of how committed they are to eventually putting it out it is low priority for them.

#24

GTG has a pretty limited set of resources available and a lot they've taken on. Getting nailed by the situation with LoSH definitely hurt everything in the pipeline, and the RPG is taking a lot more effort than they expected. (It's books, not cards. It's so! Much! More!) :-(  But they are trying to take the right approach and create the best games they can, instead of rushing them out, so I'll give them credit for that. 

LFG are definitely juggling PW with their day jobs / real life, which I imagine is incredibly hard. Time passes a lot faster than we think it does when there are folks waiting / interested in what we're doing... :-\ I'm sure the holidays didn't help any, and losing that momentum can be really hard to recover from. 

#25

I understand the limited resources. And I understand the delays, etc. I have been a fan of >G since their first KS. The handling of this project specifically, though has been pretty bad and there really is no excuse for that. They sold the preorders 5 years ago and gave little update whatsoever to the progress while villains was released and new KS projects were launched and fulfilled. We then learn that they plan to rework the entire game, content, characters, etc. via a flurry of posts and texts from fans at GenCon instead of any official word to the people that preordered the games. Now we get drips of info only when we start to demand some insight into what is happening while we look at the Stat of >G posts as this item sits at the bottom of the list of priorities for years...

As I said, I am a fan and want to support them. I just feel that this was never a priority for them and as such they can barely care enough to talk to the backers. Highlighting what is happening with LoSH only further makes me feel this way as you can see all the effort they are putting into both completing the game and the transparency to where they are at. Since this was not a KS project, there is no visibility for it outside of whoever preordered years ago and their only place to publicly ask questions is this forum.

I would be happy with updates every other month just to show that they remember this project exists. The last LFG post contained the first picture/assets we have ever seen for the game after 5+ years. There just comes a point where you start to wonder if >G will ever care enough to pull this one together or constantly re-prioritize new content.

#26

That's all fair, in my opinion. (And I appreciate the thoughtful response. :-) 

#27

 I understand a small company's limited resources, and seeing the grind they've had on LoSH I've held off on asking LFG or GTG for any status update since the last one. But everything that's on GTG's plate now was announced after the original pre-order was completed March 2015. The only thing that comes close in age is Sentinels RPG, also announced in March 2015, and that didn't go to KS until January 2019. 

Two years ago I wrote an open letter to Paul Bender requesting greater transparency. A copy of it isin the archived forum Sentinel Tactics. I was prompted to write that letter because everything regarding Seninels Of Freedom (developed with Underbite Games) announced at that time seemed to describe what we were expecting from the Sentinel Tactics. That letter listed many of the GTG products announced, developed, and often delivered since the Tactics expansion pre-order was completed. The list is only longer today. It includes Sentinels Of Freedom which is now in final stages according to those KS updates.

Six months later Paul announced GTG had been working with Lore Forge Games for a year with a complete change to the game so that it was no longer compatible with the old game. LFG is an untested game developer whose main claim to ability was performing well in Sentinel Tactics tourneys. I don't think that has changed since. Paul also said when asked about the status of future updates that during the fall after Gen Con 2018 the updates should be monthly just like a Kickstarter. When that didn't occur and I followed up on it he pushed the update responsibility to LFG who has updated sporadically and usually only when prompted. 

The original promise of an unspecified something extra for those who stuck around has been watered down to an upgrade kit to the new game. The changes announced in July 2018 do interest me, especially the co-op portion, and that's why I have stuck with it so far instead of bailing at that time. The focus exhibited on developing Legends of Sleepy Hollow, as well as their transparency in development difficulties and also mostly sticking to a promised biweekly KS update cycle, shows GTG is capable of focused development and reliable communication. So when it comes to Sentinel Tactics/Prime War it tells me they repeatedly have chosen to not focus development or be communicative regarding this product's development. 

They've always been fair in offering full refunds, no doubt. After LoSH is done and off to the manufacturer how they update us on the expected process forward will determine whether I take them up on it.

#28

I will agree on some of the stuff posted here.

1) Still a little salty we found out about prime war from random people who happened to be at Gen Con and not an official announcement. Bad PR move.

2) Will also echo the disappointed we havent been getting monthly updates like Paul promised, even if it was as simple as hey not much has changed.

3) The info about Lore Forge Games and the only name to claim is doing well at sentienal tactic tournaments has me worried at the moment.

4) I wish we had more details about exactly what happen to Legends of Sleepy Hollow because it sounds like that was a mess overall and if it is Dice Hate Me Games fault, what does that mean moving forward because stuff like this affects everything else people are excited for.

#29

FWIW Paul hasn't even logged into the forum since over three months ago.

morph147, regarding your point 1, I'm not sure what you mean by no official announcement. The original announcement regarding a Prime War revamp was by Christopher on August 10, 2016, then Paul made the second revamp announcement (including Lore Forge Games) on July 5, 2018. Links below.

August 10, 2016
https://greaterthangames.com/content/announcing-prime-war

July 5, 2018
https://greaterthangames.com/content/prime-war
Question thread
https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/prime-war-11576

#30

They were referring to the fact that news of Prime Wars was released at Gen Con, more than a week before that announcement by Christopher that you mentioned. That was a definite misstep.

#31

Ah, thanks. I usually think of Gen Con as slightly later in the year. Certainly a misstep, but to me one so long in the history of Prime Wars that only a bobble compared to what has (or hasn’t) come after.

#32

This actually makes me nervous for other reasons. However they keep hiring people for different roles so maybe they have someone who’s job is in charge of the forums and to keep us updated? Idk.

#33

I figured most of his focus was on the crunch time with Legends of Sleepy Hollow. 

#34

I guess the other aspect that has me concerned for this project is that we have no idea what the commercial success was. For a KS we can usually see money raised and # of backers which tends to correlate to how big of an investment a company should make into a product. The numbers of people buying into this game is very questionable to me. Initial numbers are somewhat obscured as they were run alongside Vengeance preorders and that was then followed by 5+ years of people requesting refunds... For all we know, this is the extent of the people still in on the product which makes me feel like there is no financial reason for them to support a speedy and dedicated development. At this point, I am expecting this to relaunch on KS as there is probably no money left to develop this project, yet alone enough backers to justify them printing it...

#35

Per yesterday's Legends of Sleepy Hollow KS update the schedule has been pushed back a month as the editing was only completed last weekend and been handed over to the graphics department. So the files are delayed going to the printer until the end of March instead of the end of February. Also with the coronavirus all factory work is up in the air so I assume Paul is juggling a lot of scheduling of projects that were supposed to go into production soon.

#36

Hey folks!

I see that everyone has a lot of questions about Prime War, and in general what we have been up to the last several months. I'm sorry that we left you in the dark, and we will work harder to be more transparent with our fans going forward, but for now, let me update you on a few things. 

The Past 3 months
Over the past 3 months, we have been working on creating a better internal organization for the sake of our fans, our products, and everyone at Greater Than Games. Jenn became the COO and has started, or continued depending on the project, large scale project management. She is now tracking all the products that come to us from China and the state of projects that are at the factory. She is our point person for updating us on the Coronavirus situation, and we are still waiting for information from our manufacturing partners. She has also been working with Matt and Jodie to optimize our warehouse so we can turn products around faster, and get them back out the door to all of you lovely folks.  In addition to all of that, Jenn is still our Creative Director, so she has spent a lot of time working with Rae and Sarah, our two amazing graphic designers, on Spirit Island: Jagged Earth, Sentinel Comics: The Roleplaying Game Core rulebook, my silly marketing assets, etc. 

Christopher, well you kind of know what Christopher has been doing. He's been working on the RPG, Legends of Sleepy Hollow, Sentinels of Freedom, and more secret projects that we can't talk about yet :P He was able to finish edits for Legends of Sleepy Hollow on Sunday night and will still need to review the final graphic design layout, but is mostly done with that project. Christopher and the graphic design team have been working in tandem on the RPG to ensure the layout can fix the text, and the images are in the right place. He recently updated the Kickstarter page and let everyone know that we are estimating fulfillment in July. He and Braithwhite (Chris Burton) have been working on the Sentinels of Freedom video game together, and they actually completed a big chunk of work on Monday for it. 

Paul and I have been spending a lot of time working together on sales. I became the Director of Sales at the tail end of last year and we started revamping our sales process so we can be better business partners. This including spinning Katie Nale, our Customer Service and Demo Team Manager, and Twuana Price, our Operations Manager, up on sales procedures so that they can assist with the processing of orders, B2B customer service, and a series of other awesome things. Paul has also been working on upcoming projects that we can't discuss yet, working with me to improve GTG Operations, and, ya know, just running the business. 

Prime War
We are going to have a bigger announcement about the state of Prime War in the next month or two, but we need to get through a few projects first. 

Going Forward
Paul and I just had a conversation about me providing monthly updates on what's going on at Greater Than Games and hosting a Q&A type session in the comments after, does that sound useful to you?

I love writing, and talking so I don't really have to be convinced, but I want to solve the communication we've been having with ya'll and I want your input, so please let me know.  

 

#37

When Paul updated Prime War in July 2018 with the revamp info and the involvement of Lore Forge Games he said there would be monthly updates starting the fall after Gen Con that year. That would be a start, with some kind of indication of real progress. Almost anything would be an improvement. Characters, lore, playtest videos, art, sculpts, rules info, these are all things that could be shared with a proviso everthing is subject to change.  But this would at least let us know that something is being developed beyond reiterating cycles of playtest turnaround. Y'all are in Missouri so you should be familiar with the expression 'show me'. 

I thought the regular monthly State of GTG post in General Discussion was a good practice, which also allowed people to ask questions regarding their individual game interests. 

#38

Really, just read my open letter from two years ago. The only things that have changed are the number of projects started, in production, and delivered, and the revelation that game development had been delegated to Lore Forge Games for six months already when I wrote that.

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/an-open-letter-regarding-sentinel-tactics-wave-2-transparency-11179

#39

Monthly updates are a good idea, no matter who's doing them. :)

#40

Thank you for linking me to the letter. I will keep it in mind going forward while we communicate about Prime War, or any other upcoming project.