Best and worst heroes?

General GTG General Discussion
1

So, out of curiosity, I want to hear how you would rate the heroes in terms of effectiveness. Which hero is your most favorite to use and/or the most powerful in your opinion, and which is the one that you always mulligan when you roll randomly?

I love me a good, civil argument, so if you disagree with my or anyone else’s choices feel free to debate.

As for my favorite, I have trouble deciding. There are a lot of really good ones. In terms of pure crowd control and versatile yet consistent damage, it’s Mr. Fixer. I also really like Wraith for her versatility, and Absolute Zero is fun to use.

As for least favorite, I have three that kind of tie for the position. I recognize that all 3 have uses and can be great against certain villains, but for me they are either too hard to use consistently or just not great.

The first is Bunker. He’s an absolute beast against people like the Matriarch or Voss, and pretty good against the Chairman or Omnitron, but unless you get Ammo Drop, good luck getting all the cards you need for his good setup. Even then, it always seems like I’m sitting there playing cards the whole game, but by the time I can pull out BUDDABUDDABUDDABUDDABUDDA mode I have let the other heroes do most of the work for me.

Then is Expatriette. Again, she has potential to be pretty good. She doesn’t have anyone in particular she’s really good or bad against, except she has a tendency to just run out of cards. She can play 2 a turn, but apart from Arsenal Access, she has no way to draw more. So she is basically the opposite of my problem with Bunker; she can get her cards out fast, she just runs out of them easily. Also, on occasion I have gotten nothing but ammo, so she just sat there comatose until she happened to draw a gun.

Last, of course, is Haka. Now, I guess I’ve been playing him wrong, so I never realized he was supposed to be more defensive than offensive, but his power led me to believe that he was supposed to be the damage-dealer. So he’s not necessarily bad, I guess, but I don’t like him that much.

2

Most favorite(s): Definitely Fixer for versatility, Ra for stupid amounts of damage, and Legacy for all-around support.

Least favorite(s): Tempest just never seems to really do well in my hands. I’ve seen him do great things as a part of a team (controlled by a friend), but every time I use him we end up losing. Perhaps that’s a coincidence? Who knows.

Also: Expatriette is really quite amazing with a supporter type hero at her side. Legacy giving her +1/+2 on damage or Visionary letting her draw up quicker makes her 10x better.

3

I consider no hero the worst, since each have their own traits that are more useful in some situations and less in others.

In terms of gameplay I would say Unity, Tempest, and Absolute Zero are my top three. Can’t say much about Unity so i’ll skip that for now, but as for Tempest I like that he has amazing multi-attacking powers and even Electrical Storm in play will cause some more madness, though his weakness is getting his damage reduced makes him more difficult to use, but he can reduce damage dealt to him and also heal the allies (though I don’t tend to heal while playing him). As for Absolute Zero, he’s just an all around fun character, and enjoyable to play.

Now for the characters I don’t choose as often when playing in groups are Visionary and Legacy. Don’t get me wrong, both fantastic characters, i’d just rather someone else play them then myself (solo play that I don’t choose randomly I tend to choose Legacy as one of the heroes though).

4

Why did you have to say “favorite or best” McBeher? Because its hard to call what people are talking about. Far be it from me to argue against anyone’s favorite character. If they’re your favoirte, then they’re your favorite! End of story. You don’t need a reason for a character to be your favorite, or it could be for reasons entirely outside gameplay. How they look, what other comic book hero they are an homage to, dialogue, theme… anything. Furthermore, favorite-and-best are often in direct contradiction to each other. I love Bunker… but I’m going to put him in my “3 worst” heros as you’ll see in a minute. But if it was based on favorite… I doubt he would be there.

The best:

#1: Visionary. I don’t see why people don’t squeal about this amazingly incredible hero more often. I feel sometimes that myself and flamethrower are her only fanboys. One look at the Flawless Victory thread will show that Visionary is the lynchpin in just about every one of them. So much so that we’ve specifically taken on the additional challenge of trying to get flawless victories without Visionary, because if you pick Visionary, the right villan and at least one hero with a damage absorbtion power [legacy, Ra, Zero], you can rack these up ad infinitum with little challenge in doing so.

But that oughtnt be my entire argument, and its not. No, despite the brokenness of Twist the Ether, visionary is good because Visionary does everything. She can tank, deal damage, control villan deck, control environment deck, control villan trash, buff, debuff, and help people draw cards. I mean really, what else is there? Wrest the Mind is exceedingly powerful when played on the right target, especially if followed by Telekenetic cocoon. Plummeting Monorail is great for this, and a bit of a teaser thrown in here, there is an enviroment card from Infernal Relics that can put Plummeting Monorail to shame in terms of “things you want to mind control”. Her base power is among the best base powers in the game -possibly the best base power in the game (its either that or Galvanize)-. Especially good when used on Tachyon, but also perfect for hunting for a specific card that a hero really wants to get out or have in hand.

And if that happens to be an ongoing card, and it gets destroyed well, that is what Mental Divergence is for. Ahem, well, that is one of the things Mental Divergence is for. Mental Divergence is absolutely fantasitic agaisnt any villan that uses ongoing cards.

But her best thing is probably Suggestion. First it gets two cards out of the trash, which is oh-so-useful and oh-so-rare of an ability. I don’t believe any other hero can take something out of the villan trash once it is in there. Putting one card back on top of the deck is maddeningly good, because it can give you a turn where the villan essentially isn’t doing anything, or isn’t doing much. But the fun doesnt stop there, you get to pick a card you dont want to see again and put it at the bottom of the deck. Great against any villan that gets stuff out of their trash.

That was longer than I thought. I was going to post the others in my top 3, but I think I’ll spread it out a bit and instead just do one of my bottom 3.

The worst

Absolute Zero: I’m posting him instead of anyone else because I want to be controversial, I know he’s got a lot of love. But it is the absolute truth that I think he belongs in the bottom 3. Reckless mentioned this in another thread, and he was spot on. Someone said that Zero was great against villans that dont kill your stuff very much, to which Reckless replied essentially that -that is exactly his point. I couldn’t agree more.

Zero needs, at a minimum, 3 cards to work. He MUST have Isothermic Transducer, Null-Point Calibration Unit, and Thermal Shockwave. If he is missing any one of these he is not effective. And really he kind of needs Coolant Blast, and Cold Snap to be at his most effective. His ability to get his modules usually is not an issue, and though getting out Thermal Shockwave sometimes is an issue, I’ll ignore that problem for the moment. After an equipment wipe, he needs essentially 3 turns to get back to doing something. Thats just too long to wait. I’ve played many entire games of Sotm that were over -victory or defeat- in 4 turns or less. His base power is undeniably the worst in the game, a power that is not only useless, but actively harmful if you dont have other cards out to help. So if you dont have Null Point or Module Installation in your starting Hand, or if you didnt take damage the first turn, then you’re not using your first turn power phase, its as simple as that. This gives Zero the slowest start of any character in the game. And even after Null-point and Isothermic, healing 1 damage is still pretty lackluster for a power phase.

Finally, he is also very finicky. This has nothing to do with his effectiveness, so you have that as a disclaimer. But it DOES have to do with my enjoyment of the character, and since that was included in the original post, I’ll mention it.

Ra: Ok, I cast Blazing Tornado. 3 fire damage, 1 for the staff, 1 for Galvanize. 5 damage to the Assault Drone, it dies. Go ahead, Zero.

Zero: Okay, I cast Thermal Shockwave. Thats cold 1 damage to the repair drone, -Oh Galvanize, 2 to the repair drone- plus 2 to Omnitron, Plus 2 to myself -3 to myself because of Cryo Chamber-. So I take… 2…4…7. 7 Fire damage. Galvanize. 8 fire damage. and also I had Imapale going this turn, so that was another… 3 cold damage I deallt this turn so add on 3 to that I take… 11 fire damage. 10 fire damage because of cryo chamber. Then I deal myself 10… 11 -cryo chamber- cold damage… 12 cold damage because of galvanize so I… … heal for 2.

5

You’re doing Ra Wrong. Try this…

I cast Blazing Tornado. That’s 3 fire damage, 1 for the staff, 1 for galvanize, 1 for imbued fire, 4 for solar flare… 10 damage to Omnitron. I don’t take any damage from them because of Imbued Fire. Your turn, Fanatic.

6

I know the Visionary can be a lynchpin in many situations; but against some villains (like Spite), she’s more of a liability.

Oh yeah, I want to deal damage with my one-shot. Oh wait, H-2 means I do 1 damage.
I want to use a power. Oh wait, I just lost 2 HP and 5 cards from the top of my deck.
I can’t manipulate the environment because Spite destroys all Environment cards anyway.
I can’t manipulate villain deck because Spite doesn’t play cards.
OH WELL. I WILL JUST HIDE IN THIS TELEKINETIC COCOON AND DRAW CARDS. :’(

7

Well, if you have stun bolt to reduce the damage he does, he won’t hit you, and you can still help others draw cards with your power.

Or, you could just hide in the cocoon so whenever he would hit the highest he hits visionary, who is invincible. Especially if you have Smoke Bombs, so Spite is completely neutralized. You just have to worry about him bouncing ongoings back to your hand, but whatever.

8

Well, I can’t talk about my best/favorite, because that’s probably Argent Adept atm; however, I wanted to chime in regarding Visionary. Out of all the heroes so far, she and Fanatic seem to run the most hot/cold for me (funny, you’d think it would be AZ?).

I’ve seen games where either of them was completely central. Visionary treated the villain’s deck like it was her toy, continuously got rid of ongoings, and even helped out with damage. Similarly, I’ve seen games where Fanatic got her Consecrated Grounds at just the right time, used Wrathful Retribution to decimate a baddy (especially in games vs. the Chairman, where you can commonly knock out one of the two sub-bosses), and maybe even managed to Divine Focus for great damage.

However, I’ve also seen several games where neither of them could seem to get anything going. The cards didn’t come at the right time, or ongoing/equipment destruction hit just after they did; games where they just seemed to be extra hit points sitting around.

The weird part is though, I rarely seem games where they are “average”. They both seem to either shine or implode. Say what you will about Haka, but you can pretty much count on him for 2 damage a round, probably a bit of healing, and PROBABLY getting Ta Moko out for some DR. You can count on him to be at least average. I think this is what makes it so hard to categorize Visionary and Fanatic. They swing the pendulum all the way from stellar to crud, but rarely fall in the middle. Mister Fixer runs about the same for me btw.

That’s my $0.02 anyway :slight_smile:

9

Yeah, more than worst/best, it’d be better to categorise them as consistent / swingy.

Examples of consistent heroes include Ra, Legacy, Tempest and Haka. You can always count on them to be useful, no matter what the situation is.

10

I’m not “doing Ra wrong”, I wager I play a stronger Ra than most. I used that merely as an example of the simplicity of Ra vs the complexity of zero, to demonstrate how Zero’s “add this, subract this, deal this much damage, subract this, add this, end up with this” way of playing really annoys me. I thought that was apparent, but I guess not.

Visionary is pretty good against Spite from where I’m standing. Twist the Ether on him and you have 1/2 of an invulnerability complex. If you dont have Ra, Zero, or Legacy to finish the other half and make yourselves utterly invulnerable, twist the ether on him again and reduce all but his basic attack to 0 damage, and you’re almost as well off. Then you can use your powers and things with impunity.

And beyond that, you dismiss the cocoon so easily. If Visionary gets the cocoon and plays it then the heroes cant lose the game. Its either win or draw. That’s pretty good if you ask me.

11

Visionary is still very useful against Spite. No, she won’t be hurting him, but that’s never why you choose Visionary. She delays his flipping until the heroes have everything they need. Influencing the environment is still important, because she can prevent excessive damage to the heroes that way by leaving on top the things that don’t do anything before Spite kills them. And Twist the Ether on Spite is a godsend.

But enough about awp and I gushing about the Visionary. :slight_smile:

12

On the contrary, gushing about heroes and criticizing others is EXACTLY why I made this topic. Not because I like criticizing people’s tastes, but I like seeing both sides of arguments. It’s exactly why companies hire people to hack their websites; one person finds a hero’s weakness, and another tells you either how to fix the problem or that you’re just playing them wrong.

Also, I understand that you dislike AZ’s complexity, but you are kind of downplaying his strength a little.

So, with both Modules, Focused Apertures, Cryochamber, Inspiring Presence, and Galvanize, you are looking at +3 to cold damage given, an extra +1 to cold damage taken, and -1 to fire damage taken.

So then you use Thermal Shockwave. Deal 3 targets 4 cold damage each. Then you deal yourself (3*4) + 2 -1 = 13 fire damage. You then deal 13 + 4 cold damage to either another target (which makes 29 total damage, without Cold Snap or Impale) or yourself, which gives you an extra +1, so you deal 12 damage out among 3 targets AND heal for 5. with ONE POWER. And that’s not taking into account any other buffs (like Twist the Ether, which would also let you heal for an extra 15 points or so) or ongoings, like Cold Snap (4 cold damage across the board) or Impale (7 cold damage for free to one target each turn), which also add in to the damage you would take for Shockwave. Throw in a One-Shot, like Hoarfire (<3) or Frostbound Drain, and you have large amounts of damage and either large amounts of healing or even MORE damage each turn.

Alternatively, you could do what I love to do, which is put Twist the Ether on the Matriarch and use Demoralize to kill the birds automatically. She’ll keep dealing lots of fire damage to AZ (which can instantly be turned around for both damage to her and healing for AZ) so when it comes time for his turn, he can just use Coolant Blast for 20+ points of damage (or healing) as a power. Hell, you may as well give him an Embolden, too. the 5 radiant damage after buffs is chump change compared to all the massive damage and decent healing he’ll be throwing around.

13

sure. if he gets that setup and can keep it, he’s golden. But both modules, thermal shockwave, cryo chamber, and focused aperatres (lets just stop there and not worry about Imale, or Coolant Blast or Cold Snap, shall we?) thats 5 turns to get there. As I said before, some games are over in 5 turns. Heck I just played 2 consecutive games against Baron Blade [invoving Zero, incidentally, because I wanted to give him another shot] each of which were over [defeat] in four. Zero got to do absolutely nothing, both games. One of which he didn’t have a module or Onboard in his hand, so he had to make due with playing Glacial Structure to get what he needed, which slowed him down even more. I’m not saying the loss of either game was all Zero’s fault, but I am saying that Zero certainly was not able to do his part to help the team.

14

Of course, every hero has its weaknesses. I’m not saying he’s infallible (far from it, in fact. He’s pretty much the worst person to pick if you’re going to Mars or up against Dawn.) He takes some setup time, and is entirely equipment-dependent. His payoff for it is amazing, though.

15

Just a quick reminder, Coolant Blast specifies a non-hero target, and thus cannot be used for further healing.

16

oh, does it? I don’t have the cards in front of me, so I couldn’t remember.

17

I confirm that.

18

Also, Abs against The Bird Lady of Alcatraz is shut down pretty easy. Her cohorts pop two cards a turn. Matriarch’s two card combo screws over his five equipment cards rather quickly (one of them destroys ongoing AND equipment, right? I don’t have the cards on hand to make sure…). Then again, that’s a bit unfair. Saying that Zero isn’t fun against the Matriarch isn’t terribly compelling. I find the Matriarch to be an absolute chore (and nowhere near the thematic power scale of Tachyon, but that’s just me).

Let me just say, I enjoy playing AZ when he can actually do stuff. I find his concept fantastic, his playstyle unique, and playing with fire is fun. I just have noticed that, unlike other heroes who can at least impotently do something when all of their stuff is broken (deal/reduce damage, draw/play/mill a card, etc.), all Abs can do is punch himself in the junk. I am quite curious to see if there can ever be a promo card that can keep his fire/cold hurt/heal combo while still allowing him to be useful when he doesn’t have his tech in play.

Look at Onboard Module Installation. It can grab one of only two different cards (that make up a large chunk of his deck, granted, but still…only two), doesn’t put them directly into play, and allows him to draw a card and play a card. Meanwhile, Wraith is having a Razor party with Impromptu Invention, allowing her to search for ANY of her equipment cards, put it into play, and play another card. Why doesn’t the OMI install the card onto the field and allow AZ to play another card? Presumably it’s pulling a Downey, Jr. Iron Man and lets him run and gun while getting tricked out in sweet techno snow gear? I’d love it if there was at least one way the guy could get himself to play more than one Module a turn.

And I agree with awp (not just because he gave me a positive namedrop, mind you) that Visionary is fantastic. Twist the Ether and Mental Divergence are amazing. Also, Brain Burn when Decoy Projection is on the field? Goodbye Chairman Pike…your Underbosses and Thugs just left town and Visionary is still good to go! Just tonight, three Suggestions saved my friends and myself from Citizen Dawn merging with the Sun. There have been situations where she hasn’t been the greatest, but I cannot think of a time we actively regretted taking Visionary with us in a game.

Also, why does Mr. Fixer only deal one damage with his Strike? The fact that he can only have one Tool/Style out at once really limits his usefulness. At most, he can have Bloody Knuckles/Toolbox/Grease Gun, a Style, a Tool, and Harmony out at once. Also, Overdrive relies on him having the “Strike” power, so if he ever has a Promo card, its power will have to be called “Strike,” or else all of his Overdrives will be completely useless. Considering what other characters can do with their power combos, he really should be able to do two damage base.

Forgive me if I sound critical, but this is such a great game! I play it all the time and can’t help but notice these things (at least in my group).

TLDR: I find Visionary to be exceedingly useful in most situations, but have had several games in which Zen and the Art of Auto Repair and Zero have felt rather underpowered.

19

To be fair, most criticisms of AZ can be equally applied to Bunker. Not as finicky, maybe, but still so very, very equipment-oriented and utterly useless against certain villains/environments. Wraith manages to slip past that restriction mostly thanks to the sheer overpowered-ness of her Improvised Weaponry.

20

Some of them can, yes. I’m not gushing over Bunker here either (other than I said in my first post in this thread that I like him for flavor reasons, and not because of his effectiveness). In fact, what a great segue into…

The Worst:

Bunker: Ah, what a painful few paragraphs this is going to be to write. I really do love Bunker, I like his theme and I like the fact that he’s based on Iron Man, who is probably my favorite superhero. But alas, I am loathe to put you in the bottom 3, but I shall anyway.

Lets start with equipment kills. You simply don’t take Bunker to Mars unless you want an exercise in frustration. And against any villan with copious amounts of stuff killing, he can be a bother. Now, the newer villans have switched over most of their stuff destruction to an H-X stuff-destroying formula, which honestly is kind of fine for Bunker. its still nasty, but its kind of fine. What really messes him up is the destroy ALL equipment cards. And he does have an advantage over Zero in that ongoing destruction doesnt hurt him as much, only equipment destruction, where Zero really has to have both. But still, a bunker who can only Initialize is a sad bunker.

But its what happens after that which makes me think that Bunker is one step ahead of Zero. Bunker is at least reasonably back on his feet after 1 play. Where Zero takes at least 3-5 turns to get rolling again, Bunker can get back his grenade launcher or flak cannon and be good to go again. Sure, he’s not AS good as he would be with turret mode and both guns and gatling and heavy plating… but after one play he can do something to meaningfully contribute to the war effort.

But my strongest criticism of Bunker is the mode cards. They don’t work. Or I should say, they don’t work well. The only desireable mode to be in really, is turret mode. Turret mode is just fine. But I hardly ever go into upgrade mode or recharge mode, the fast-paced nature of the game means there simply isn’t time for this kind of buffing. You can’t afford to be not dealing damage for the 2 turns it takes for you to get any advantage out of those cards. You would think that his “thing” would be switching between mode cards to get the greatest possible advantage… but its just not. You want to stay in “regular” mode pretty much all the time until you have 2 guns out and then you go into Turret Mode. And thats about all. If only Bunker could play a mode card for free at the start of his turn, like Speed Loading or something. That would fix a whole lot of my problems with Bunker and would make him much more fun to play.

Finally, Bunker can deal damage. There is nothing wrong with that, but thats basically all he can do. He can draw cards and deal damage. He has a little tanking ability, he has the tiniest fraction of environment control (I do like Adhesive Foam Grenade) but no ongoing/environment destruction, which is something I always want to see from any hero. If you are SO good at dealing damage that you absolutely blow away the competition, you can get by without such things (like Ra) but Bunker really is not quite to that point.