Best and worst heroes?

General GTG General Discussion
41

Bunker, Haka, and Fanatic would classify as hybrid characters to me. All three of them have two niches that they can fill, just not particularly well. Both Bunker and Haka can fill the damage role, but can also fill the tanking role (as very few others can) while Fanatic has such a variety of cards I’m really not sure what role to fit her in at all. Don’t get me wrong, I like playing as her and I think she’s got some pretty cool stuff going there, she’s just not sure what role she really wants to fill.

awp, somebody else is getting irreducible damage? This is news to me. Still, are we discussing favorite heroes now or favorite heroes in the future? I don’t think a future change that we don’t all know about should be a mark against Fixer.

42

Two things. First: I LOVE this conversation. I’m not going to jump in here and argue with anyone, as these are all opinions and awesome and this is EXACTLY the sort of discussion I love seeing. You guys are great.

Second:

Ice is my favorite. It always has been. Fire, as you accurately pointed out, is damage and more damage, and usually to a single target. Lightning is damage and more damage to other targets with nifty options. Ice? Ice is CONTROL. Slow and Stop piggyback on cold damage. Ice: for those who want to control their opponents and then obliterate them. And, as you might have guessed, I am not a gamer girl.

Not that it has anything to do with SotM - just weighing in.

43

Ice is nice, but Lightning is frightening. Also Fire.

(In all seriousness, though…Tempest deals Cold, Lightning, AND Projectile damage! Or any damage you want with the ESE. Love it!)

44

Ah well, there are always exceptions to the rule… Although you are right about Ice often having rider effects. I wasn’t really thinking of that at the time.

We don’t really have an ice character in SotM. I mean, yes, there is Zero, but he relies on fire just as much as he does on cold. And he’s missing the “rider effects” that you so observantly point out. I mean I understand if a hero was too much like Zero it wouldn’t be worth making, but I don’t think simply having the same “element” qualifies. I mean heck, we have Wraith, Bunker, Expatriette, and 1/2 of Tempest who all do Projectile damage. Legacy (original) and Haka are both melee.

Man it sure would be… cool if SotM had something like that. I bet a lot of people would be interested in buying it… ;D

45

For what it’s worth, I’m an Ice guy too.

And Zero has one “rider” effect, if you will. That is exactly the purpose of Subzero Atmosphere.

46

My wife and I are the same way: I’m all water/ice all the time, and she’s 100% fire*.

*Unless we’re talking Avatar, in which case she’s a huge Toph fangirl.

47

Oh, and Fueled Freeze, to some extent. It’s a control option, anyway, and one of Zero’s few.

48

It’s strange that you say that, Because I feel like absolutely zero is controlled more than controlling. As I noted, His requirements to really kick in make it more likely the villain cards will decide his fate then he will decide the villain’s. Compared to visionary, who I see as a control freak’s dream, AZ is a bit limited.

I did some quick and dirty math using a mana calculator for Magic, so it’s based on a 7 card draw. My calculations extend out to the first 3 turns. The plus side is that by the end of turn 3 (assuming a draw of one a turn), you are 99.9% likely to draw 1 module or a card that will get you a module. You also have a 67% chance of getting 2-3 modules, which I would consider the sweet spot as getting 4+ modules is taking up space for other cards. In a third of games, you will end up with no modules or too many in your hand. So, granting you get both modules out and into play and not get stuck with two of one type, your combo will be ready turn 3 or 4.

At that point you need a power or one shot that can deal damage. There are 5 damage dealing powers in the deck of which only 2 can deal damage on their own. The other three require AZ to take fire damage at some time since the end of his last turn (and since it’s a power, he can’t use any other power that deals fire to him to trigger it). This means that another hero needs to oblige him, the villain/environement just happens to deal him fire, or he needs one of his own one shots to deal him fire. AZ just happens to have 4 one shots in his deck that will deal him fire. One of you probability hounds can probably do a much better job here than I can, but just eyeballing it, AZ has a very inconcsistent deck. Other heroes can help him out, but then he is dragging others down.

There are only 4 control cards that I see in the deck, 2 subzero atmospheres (which is my favorite card in his deck), and 2 fueled freezes which destroy ongoing cards. Since the new trend is villains that have very few ongoing cards and many more custom named cards, Fueled freezes are much more likely to be used on hero ongoings than villain ones.

Sorry if I went overboard on the analysis, but AZ really bugs me in that I find him very interesting, but I generally don’t get him to work. I think this may be because his cards really do not synergize as well with themselves as you would expect.

I apologize for going back to Magic for comparison, but a combo deck is generally set up to find and get the combo out as quickly as possible. In sentinels you don’t generally want that, as a too finely tuned deck will get stale over time. However, in the case of AZ I might make an exception because you only get to play a max of one card per turn. Thus, a combo requires many turns to set up with many opportunities to have it scrapped before then. You can tell that was recognized early by how many fetch cards (from the deck and trash) there are in his deck.

I Love the thermodynamic back story and intent behind AZ, and I actually like most of the cards in his deck. I just think that when you put it all togeher and play with it, that it doesn’t gel as well as it could.

49

I have some anecdotes that are part bragging about a new player I brought in, and part relevant to this thread. This will be long. :slight_smile:

I started a three player game against regular Dawn in Atlantis, with Visionary, Tempest, and Bunker. The new player was Tempest (because, he said, Lightning). Visionary and Tempest, both of whom I report as all-powerful, were unable to get their ongoing destruction, so Dawn laughed it up with two copies of Return with the Dawn. We were able to kill all the minions every round, and they weren’t hurting us, but we couldn’t make any headway. Then Citizen Truth came out, and it was pretty downhill from there.

Tempest eventually cleared the ongoings, but once she started drawing the damaging minions, she wiped us out but good. Tempest and Visionary spent most of the game with no hands to speak of, between multiple Blinding Blasts and Phosphorescent Chambers. They had stronger options than many in that situation, however. On Visionary’s turn, she would Enlighten Tempest, who would typically find one of the two cards applicable to the situation, due to his great versatility. It wasn’t enough, of course, but it was a good thing in a bad situation. Bunker, by contrast, built a strong array from the start and was instrumental in mowing down the early minions. However, once the Devastating Aurora came, he mostly became a spectator. Not because he didn’t have the cards, but because he didn’t have the time.

Well, the newbie wanted a rematch, and we were joined by two more players. The newbie picked Absolute Zero (because, he said, Ice!). He was even more intrigued when he read Zero’s base power. We ended up, fairly randomly, playing the Freedom Five, minus Bunker plus Ra, since Bunker was dead. Rematches rule. Anyway, since we had five, we were playing Advanced Dawn.

Newbie caught on to Zero right away, and probably played him better than I do - that is to say, aggressively. On his second turn, with the Isothermic Transducer in play, and no prior knowledge of the Sun God’s deck, he asked if Ra could deal him three fire damage to help finish off Citizen Truth. Ra was stunned, but obliged with an Inferno, which, funnelled through Zero and amped by Galvanize, killed Truth, and dealt two to all the other citizens.

The combined might of the Freedom Five minus Bunker plus Ra was able to take Dawn down without flipping her. We had a fabulous plan to bury her in the volcano for 26 damage, but it never materialized, because +3 damage to all attacks kinda took care of the situation.

So yeah, a newbie made me rethink Absolute Zero. Two things worked for him here - Ra, Legacy, and Wraith were in the game, and nothing interfered with his capabilities. Ra could shoot him with fire when needed (and didn’t use either Flesh of the Sun God or Imbue Fire), Legacy had the buffs, and Wraith used Infrared Eyepiece and dodged Devastating Aurora. Ergo, nothing killed his stuff, allowing him to deal a truly dizzying amount of damage, just between the two modules, Legacy, and his one shots. Does this make me think of him as good? … Well, it certainly makes me think we used good teamwork. :slight_smile:

50

Playing Absolute Zero is all about being ruthless, especially to yourself. You don’t really need those HP. Ask anyone who’s played with me.

YES. Phenomenal. Bravo!

51

Ra can work very well with Absolute Zero (assuming you don’t Embued Fire (at least not too long), as that can result in a quick Absolute Zero death), and more so with Legacy, Visionary, and/or Fanatic (with Legacy improving damage dealt, Visionary controlling damage types, and Fanatic Embolding Absolute Zero (allowing him to use Thermal Shockwave before using Coolant Blast, for that extra oomph) as well as occasionally using Absolution to fuel more fire). Typically, my plan, assuming I’m in a situation allowing me to keep out played cards, is to end up with at least both modules and Coolant Blast. When dealt fire damage, I check to see how low the HP is. If too low, I use healing. If not too low, I retaliate. Then, Coolant Blast allows either double damage (plus any modifiers at the time), or single damage plus a net of not taking any damage (plus modifers). I haven’t played with him much recently, only because I tend to play other heroes that I never played much when I first got the game.

52

I guess I just don’t get it. If you have only Isothermic in play, then dealing Zero fire damage is only marginally better than just dealing fire damage to the baddies, and at the expense of your hp. EG: What difference does it make if Ra deals Truth 3 damage with an Inferno or if he deals Zero 3 damage with an inferno which is elementaly changed to cold and channeled to truth? Basically none, except you get to abuse buffing, if you have it. Still, 4 damage to Zero in exchange for +1 real damage to Truth, not worth it.

So its only really good if you have Coolant Blast. And even when you do, the heroes that can deal fire damage are few and far between. There is Ra (duh), Tempest and Fixer, who can deal consistent fire damage if they want to. Expatriette can deal it on rare occasion with her inferno rounds, and Fanatic can do some, but only with Absolution. If Zero is supposed to be a synergy hero, he certainly doesn’t synergize with very many of his compatriots.

53

I have always had problems with that combo as well, I guess the only thing that would make it better than +1 is multiple buffs, with both Galvanise and Focused Apertures in play it would make it +2… hmmm, any effects that increase damage to heroes would be another buff to the damage dealt out, but I’m still with you on this, not sure it’s worth it to lose that much HP to inflict the extra damage (but I am happy to be proved wrong).

54

Well, it would do 3 + buffs to Absolute Zero. (let’s say 2; 1 for Galvanize, and one for the staff) so 5. Then AZ does 5 + buffs (Galvanize and Focused Apertures) for 7. that’s double the buffs.

Also, if AZ has Coolant Blast, any fire damage he takes is basically redirected double; once when he takes it, and again when he uses Coolant Blast.

55

Yes but its 5 damage to Zero for only +2 damage over what you would usually have.

If you have coolant blast its worth it. If you don’t, I don’t see how it can be.

56

I do agree that “Friendly Fire” typically isn’t worth it (except maybe in some rare case) without Coolant Blast.

57

If you’re not worried about AZ ever getting to zero, then it becomes worth it again, don’t you think?

58

Isn’t that essentially treating a hero like a glorified Tony Taurus?

59

I’m trying to think of a game where I have had someone die and we’ve won… I’m coming up blank. It’s always been an all or nothing affair so I’m always worried about removing HP from a non-tank character.

60

I remember a 3 hour Citizen Dawn on Mars game, where I believe only Absolute Zero died, and on his turn, he was able to use the “Destroy one target with 1 HP” to defeat Dawn.