In my personal opinion this is being way over thought. Isolated means isolated. The villain has a particular hero isolated from the others. In a corner, another room, other side of the planet. Nothing the other heroes can do to help the one that has been isolated. They are in fact isolated. Just my 1.5 cents. As long as you're having fun with it, play it how you like.
Was there a definitive answer on what happens if, say, a hero under the effects of Twist the Ether becomes Isolated? Would Twist go to Visionary's trash as her target is now "inivisble" and from her PoV no longer exists? Or would it remain in play on that character but do nothing until they become un-Isolated?
Isolated Hero says nothing about destroying anything when it becomes attached to a hero. Twist the Ether would remain attached but would do nothing for the hero. You could even play Twist the Ether on a hero that is Isolated, but it still wouldn't do anything.
Could you play it on an isolated hero? I'm with you on everything else. I don't see any reason why TtE would get destroyed. But playing TtE on an isolated hero? I'm not so sure I'd play it that way.
You're referring to the fact that the Mist Form / Amulet of the Elder Gods ruling states that because Nightmist is immune to damage, she can't use the amulet to redirect it, right? That's actually a good point in that it shows a clear precedent for considering whether or not a target would take damage in determining whether or not a redirect effect is allowed, but you're wrong… it doesn't prove that that the redirect effect affects the target the damage gets redirected away from. Because the damage is redirected away from that target, that target never takes the damage, and therefore the state in which it took damage never actually occurred, so there is no change the target, which means that it was never affected. What it does prove is that you can't use an effect to prevent a situation that would never have happened if the effect was not used, but that's completely irrelevant to the question at hand.
I agree up to this point.
The problem with this is that redirection effects never choose a target to redirect from… they respond to an instance of damage, and by the time that instance of damage has been declared, the target for the damage has already been chosen (typically by the source of that damage).
And who do you think choses the new target? What gives you the ability to do that? Does a new target magically get chosen?
No dude. The player/hero who's redirecting choses. Because it is their. And a player can't choose another hero who's isolated. If you agree stealth bits redirection is an effect from unitys deck, then you must agree that effect can't be used on isolated hero. It says so on the card!
Presumably the target was chosen by some villain or environment card text. I believe his argument is that Stealth Bot is only affecting damage from some non-hero source, and doesn't care that the intended target was isolated from Unity.
That said, I agree with you Foote. Stealth Bot is restricted to damage aimed at Hero Targets, so if the target is isolated from Stealth Bot I don't think it can meet that trigger condition without counting as the cards affecting each other.
Obviously. That's why I can see it being the case that damage can't be redirected TO a target that's blocked by Isolated Hero, but so far, I don't see any justification for why it couldn't be redirected FROM a target that's blocked by Isolated Hero.
I've been ignoring these comments because they don't conribute anything to the thread, but now I feel the need to explain something to you. There are two key concepts regarding any language: syntax, and semantics. Syntax is the exact wording that is used, and semantics is the meaning behind it. The problem with natural languages like, for example, English, is that a single syntax can potentially map to several different semantics. In practical terms, this means that just because two people read the same words, doesn't mean that they'll have the same idea about what those words mean.
In case you still don't get it… I've read the card several times before even posting in this thread, and I've read it several times since. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean that I haven't read the card.
Except the target did, it was just moved before the damage was placed.
If the state never occurs, why does the game care if the target is immune or not?
Except when it was effected by the power up to the point the effect moves it to a different target.
So you're saying the game is checking into the future state of the game to see if the damage is possible against it's target, but the redirect still happens before the damage is ever assigned?
Oh, you're thinking of it as damage is actually applied to the target, then gets removed by the redirect affect? That's interersting. If that were the case, then yes, I'd agree that damage could not be redirected from targets affected by Isolated Hero. However, this interpretation becomes murky when you consider that most redirect effects, and all redirect effects that I've found which describe redirecting damage away from a target, say when damage "would be" dealt, suggesting that the redirection occurs before the damage is actually dealt.
Yes, you can think of it as a "look ahead" mechanic. When you see that something is about to happen, you get the chance to stop it from happening. If you do stop it, then that "something" that you stopped from happening doesn't actually happen. If that "something" is never about to happen, then the chance to stop it never gets triggered.
As for redirection, what is triggering the redirection?
If it is the isolated target being targetted for damage, then I would say no, you can't redirect damage away from that target, as you are responding to something happening to them.
WtM and Divine Sacrifice work differently. Divine Sacrifice is triggering based on the source of the damage, Fanatic hit them, now their damage is redirected to her. The target of the damage is irrelevant, that damage is being redirected without an optional trigger or a target needing to be specified. If Fanatic is the one isolated or it is an ally, either way it would still be redirected. WtM is the same way, it triggers on the source of the damage, not the target. If Isolated hero is the target of the attack, it doesn't matter, Visionary can still effect the one dealing damage, and that is her trigger for redirection. If the card is on an isolated hero it sits there and cannot be activated. I agree you can play cards on an isolated hero or their cards, but those cards have no effect as long as the hero remains isolated.
Smoke Bombs is trickier.
Smoke Bombs is a non-optional trigger that goes solely off HP. It doesn't care who the lowest HP hero is, or who the highest HP hero is, it is doing its thing whenever the lowest HP target is about to receive damage. On the other side it is affecting those heroes, and I think I would end up not allowing smoke bombs redirect to or away from the isolated hero. Wraith being isolated would make Smoke Bombs useless, just like Unity being isolated means Stealth bot could only work on Unity's cards.
I would go with Smoke bombs still triggering off the lowest HP hero, but if that hero is isolated it has no effect. Also the isolated hero being highest HP would stop the redirection, and the lowest would still take the damage.
Isolated Hero doesn't stop you from being targetted, but it does block the effect.
I'd go with cards already placed on the Isolated Hero remain, but may not be used. New cards can't be played there until Isolated Hero is removed.
Isolated hero doesn't say they can't be targetted, or have cards played on them, just that they can't be effected. I don't see why you couldn't put a card on them.
Being a target is an effect.
Because you are selecting the isolated hero for something (in this case playing a card). I'd consider adding a card to their board as affecting them
It doesn't say affecting the space where their cards sit, it has to affect the hero or their cards, and being a target isn't affecting them, unless targetting them results in an effect.
An effect brings about a change, it has to actually do something. The only thing you affect by putting a card next to their hero is the space that the card occupies. There is potential for an effect, but not an effect yet.
As Isolated Hero does not prevent you from affecting the space they are playing in I don't see why you couldn't play a card there. That card would have no effect.
This is a good question. I was thinking it's the card that provides the redirection effect, but it could be that it's the target that's about to take damage that triggers the chance to redirect, and any cards that provide redirection effects then provide a chance to respond to that trigger. If that's the case, and if it's also the case that responding to a trigger is considered to affect the triggering card, then I'd agree with this interpretation. Aside from redirection and responses to card destruction, what other trigger mechanics are there?
As far as I'm aware, there is no concept of a hero's board in the rules, nor is there anything that says that hero cards must be played near their corresponding hero character card. In theory, you could play all hero, villain, and environment cards in one long list to keep track of the order in which they were played, but I imagine that would make it hard to keep track of what options are available to the players.
The Tomb of Anubis does mention a player's play area, but there is no general rule about where cards go when they are in play. If you wanted to play 'Demoralization' and place it next to an isolated hero, I would be fine with that.
However cards like Twist the Ether and Wrest the Mind say to play them next to a target. It is not valid to just put them next to nothing if you can avoid it, so I feel like when you play them next to an isolated target, then the card has affected them. In general I try to resolve text on hero cards as I would if the cards they are isolated from are not even there.