Me and Amnanaidch are on separate tracks. He's been mixing in Fanatic for four out of five of the bottom five. I've just been using the bottom four.
My game 6. Gisef is running the four bottom most. I'm running the bottom 5.
It was never a conversation about only Gisef games, was it? It was the Losers team which I thought would include both of your games, which would than hold Fanatic. Unless I am misreading something here.
My intention was to use typically 4 of the bottom 5 non-alternate heroes through the villains, from bottom to top until I feel like I'm not doing well enough to justify the continued experiment, the games become uninteresting, or squirrel. Gislef has been posting his similar games. The primary difference seems to be Gislef’s loser team is only the bottom 4 ever, while I will often use Fanatic because I sometimes find Bunker and Ex. Patriot a little dull to play at times.
Doing this has really increased my appreciation of 3 of the heroes, |0|, Fanatic, and Mr. Fixer.
Well, no, it wasn't just about me. But your response seemed to be about my comment that only my team didn't have enough ongoing removal. And I wasn't including Fanatic or speaking to the other team.
Apologies for the confusion. Basically, I'm only analyzing the performance of the four I'm using. So if someone responds by pointing out something any other hero has, it won't be applicable.
I can't speak to Fanatic, although I may include her in future. I'm fine with Expat, so I don't see any pressing need to sub her out.
But yes, I've also learned a few things with AZ and Fixer. I like looking at the dynamic with Expat as far as her mix of Rounds and Guns and Reload and Speed Rounds, so am still working with her.
Just a tip about Abz that you folks may or may not know. You do not need modules in play for Absolute Zero to be effective. Having them in play makes him more effective.
Once a module is out I would focus on making that module better rather than getting the other out. If you want to do damage you'll want Isothermic Transducer, Focused Aperatures, and Thermal Shockwave. Personally I tend to wait for Null-point onces Abz get below 15. Cryo Chamber will enter play once he gets below 10. For tanking however you would want Null-Point, Focus Aperatutes, and Cryo Chamber. You can toss in Isothermic and Thermal Shockwave latter and begin to also start dealing small damage also.
Yep, the fire module is rarely critical, since there's enough ice-damaging stuff even without it.
My point is that neither is critical though.
My peronal favorite playing style is having Isothermic, Focused Aperatures, Thermal Shockwave, Cold Snap, and Impale because of how much damage he is able to produce in single turn. Though he doesn't always last much longer afterwards as he takes so much damage aswell.
Coolant Blast with AZ against Mad Bomber is always fun.
Especially with Isothermic module out.
Game 5 (track 2) - Mr. Fixer, Absolute Zero Elemental Wrath, Expatriette, Bunker Engine of war vs. Omnitron at Time Cataclysm
Statistical Results: Hero loss after 10 turns. Expat and Bunker went down on Turn 8.
MVP - Nobody really, it was knd of a blah game.
Fun: 2/5
Danger: 4/5
Shining Moment: None really.
We've never found Omnitron to be a Difficulty 1, unless you're cherry-picking heroes to fight him, and this game was no exception. Like the AI machine he is, Omnitron is boring, but brutal and relentless. Every turn there was something we had to deal with it, that took up enough resources that all we could do was stay even and maybe inflict a little damage on him directly. About the time we were could handle him, out came Tech Singularity. He ended the game with 75 HP.
Yes, we tried Engine of War and Elemental Wrath variants for a little variety. AZ's is okay, but Bunker's, not so much. He really needs card draw, and he didn't get Ammo Dump or Recharge Mode until late in the game when it was too late. He did remove one Adaptive Plating card, but that was it. Yes, he can remove Ongoings, and he's got... nine? cards to do it with. But any given time you really need one of those and can't afford to give it up. Or it's going to cost you if you do give it up.
The adaptive plating was, as always, annoying. We used random positioning, so having our two Projectile Weapon folks back-to-back didn't help. We took out the plating twice (Engine of War, and then Fueled Freeze later), but it slowed us down. Not that we had a lot of time to hit Omni directly anyway.
Yes, Omnitron isn't much fun with Tech Singularity. We got hit by it, took 2 (Fixer) to 8 (AZ, Expat) damage each. A second one came up the same turn, so we got lucky there. it hurt mostly Expat, who had four guns on the board and was building up to a nice Unload. The damaeg and card loss hurt, but it wasn't a critical factor in our loss. We had backups for most of it. it just took time away as we rebuilt, and then it was over before we got back to that point.
The main factor was the Time Catclysm. The Computer came out and although we appreciated the extra draw, Omni getting an extra draw _before_ his villain turn doomed us. The Computer kept drawing "start of the turn" damage components, which would then almost immediately go off. We didn't have enough resources to put into attacking it, and never drew a RPG Launcher, so we gambled that it wouldn't hit us with start-of-turn components. We lost that gamble three times, and got Distint Ray and Rail Gun'ed into oblivion. :(
Generally Omnitron was strong enough in this game that it wasn't the low-ranking heroes that were the reason for the win, but just that he was getting all the good draws. The Computer gave him three draws (or two draws and a component/drone recovery, which is kind of a draw) a turn, and that was too much to handle.
Against Omnitron, Expatriette just shouldn't be building up guns. One gun + one Flak Jacket is the way to go. If your first gun is Pride or Prejudice you can play its match, but otherwise don't do it.
She didn't really have anything else to play. I did get a Flak Jacket out, yes. And had a Unload in my hand. But otherwise it was a gun-heavy series of draws.
Basically it was a toss-up on whether to gamble she got an Unload off before Tech Singularity came out. The Flak Jacket was lost to a drone. :(
Problem is that assumes an optimal draw. If all you have useful on your first turn is, say, Submachine Gun, do you play it and do something? Or do you sit there for a turn and twiddle your thumbs because I had Reload, Unload, and Speed Rounds?
Or in the game in question, I drew Tac Shotgun on the first turn. Great! But on the second turn, the targets started multiplying and that Assault Rifle in my hand became a lot more useful to have out. Then on the third turn I had Prejudice.
Once you play the guns, you can't get rid of them. Normally you wouldn't want to, but against Omnitron as you say, you do. Or forego that flexibility in the first place. Expat is like Fixer in that she has weapons and ammo to deal with a wide range of situations. But she has to keep them all out, which in Omnitron/Tech Singulrity's case is a downside.
Game 6 (track 2) - Expat, Bunker, AZ Elemental, Fixer vs. Omnitron at Megalopolis
Statistical Results: Hero loss after 7 turns. Most people were gone on Turn 5. Fixer stayed out until turn 6. Expat went down on Turn 7.
MVP - Nobody really, it was knd of a blah game. Expat stayed alive because of two consecutive Flak Jackets.
Fun: 1/5
Danger: 4/5
Shining Moment: None really.
Well, we wanted to see if Game 5 was a fluke. It wasn't. :( An early Tech Singularity hurt, but mainly it was just difficult to keep up against the damage being dealt. EMP came out on Turn 1, and you really have to dedicate your time to taking that out. Meanwhile, Megalopolis was dealing out the cards that prevent hero powers and card play, and components were hitting the board. Turns 2 and 4, Omni had no components or drones in his deck, but that was about our lucky break. If you want to call it that, since they were on the board. Sedative Flechettes on the fist turn meant we didn't lose Ongoings, but the early hit didn't help either. Between five points from that and six points from an EMP device, everyone was down 11 by the beginning of turn 2. It just went downhill from there. We took out the EMP, but another one came out.
We didn't get any drone draws in the first five turns (and then just the healing one), so that may have hurt us. When you're trying to take out an EMP device, and trying to do the seven damage to Omni to remove the components, and work around the Adaptive Plating, it all becomes very problematic.
Game 7 (track 2) - Engine Bunker, AZ, Expat,Fixer vs. Omnitron at Megalopolis
Statistical Results: Hero loss after 8 turns. Game was going good until Turn 8, then EMP device took out almost everyone.
MVP - Expat and Fixer kept hitting.
Fun: 2/5
Danger: 4/5
Shining Moment: None really.
Last Omni game, we promise! We actually had this one more or less under control. Yes, we got hit by Flechettes and Tech Singularity. But the environment worked for us, because we let the Kraken pick off the drones and EMP device, and Mystical Weaponry helped pick off the others (as well as giving us that little boost we needed to do the 7 damage to Omni to remove his components). Drones and Components were coming out evenly. Adaptive Plating never came out.
Turn 7, Omni was down to 55, we were in the 10-16 range-wise, and... Atlantean Font of Power came out. And it drew an EMP device. which immediately triggered at the start of Omni's Turn 8. Everyone dropped except AZ, he went to 1 HP, and a drone finished him off.
If not for that, we probably could have won. We could have dealt with the EMP if it had come out normally and hadn't triggered until the beginning of Turn 9. Or if Fixer had played a Grease Gun on general principles on Turn 7 just previously (we haven't seen one in games 6 or 7). Or maybe even if Expat had a Flak Jacket out: she used one earlier and lost another to Tech Singularity. If she had been standing, and bought AZ time to heal by taking the drone damage, the game might have gone on.
As we posted a long time ago, we'd really dispute that Omni is Difficulty 1. You can handle him with consistent mass-attacking, or deck manpulation. Or extra damage boosting (Legacy). But we've lost to him with "better" heroes. And the Loser Squad just doesn't seem to have what it takes.
Game 8 (track 2) - Elemental AZ, Rook City Wraith, Expat, Fixer vs. Apostate at The Block
The current statistical list shows Elemental AZ at the bottom, and RC Wraith. So we played with those
Statistical Results: Hero win after 13 turns.
MVP - Wraith and Throat Jabs & Stun Bolts
Fun: 3/5
Danger: 3/5
Shining Moment: Inventory Barrage for the game after removing the relics.
We had fairly good luck: none of the real Apostate combos kicked in. Everything came out about as evenly as you could hope. Wraith kept Apostate from damaging folks very much. AZ took a while to build up to his healing, but once he got Thermal Shockwave going, he was pretty solid. His irreducible damage style helped against some of the high-reduction artifacts. Expat didn't do anything massive: she drew a lot of weapons, but not so many Ammos. She did get out Flak Jackets and RPG Launchers. Never got that Unload.
I suppose the question is, is using RC Wraith unfair rather than Bunker? She is one of the four lowest rated. Why that particular one should be lower than the other two isn't clear: we rarely use her power in any incarnation. We used it on the first turn, and after that she had perfectly adequate equipment powers. Even when she produced Utility Belt a few turns later, she had plenty to do with Stun Bolt and Razor Ordinance. We typically find that the case with her other two incarnations, though.
Warden Hoefle came out early, which let us keep the inmates to the minimum. For the inevitable Prison Riot, we'd knock down the lower-HP ones and let Hoefle finish off the remaining one. The defensive Block card was probably the biggest pain.
Basically the usual for a Loser Squad win: they got some good early draws and enough time to build their combos. Apostate brings a lot of stuff back and protects what he has, but Imp Pilferer is the only thing he has that really removes things. We had the first two turns dealing with an IP and it cost Fixer a couple of style cards. After that, the IP went down. Later, we had Subzero Atmosphere out and the returning Imps didn't do anything before we took them out.
In games with bad draws you see wraith use her base powers a lot. The other two have much nicer (and actually useful) powers.
If someone has a better use for her power please let me know, but about the only use I see is playing Chairman, when he's flipped, at Insula Primalis, with a lackey or two that won't kill you with +1 damage. Then about the only bad card you can draw is a pterodactyl thief and it would actually be beneficial to use her power and get rid of it.
Are there enough games for Rook City Wraith and Abew for their bottom-tier standing to be statically significant?I decided against going with the alternate heroes because of the relatively low number of games and them generally being considered potentially improved versions of the original characters.
Either way, I'm enjoying reading about your games. I haven't had much time to play, recently.
Played a game once where Rook City Wraith allowed us to play a Close Quarters Combat out of turn. The heroes got the benefit and the villains didn't. I still prefer Last Stand and regular Wraith, but there are times when playing an environment card out of turn can be really nice.